decades of addiction leads to decades of recovery; a more holistic & compassionate treatment approach with Isaiah House Founder, Mark LaPalme
Host: Brenda Zane, brenda@brendazane.com
Guest: Mark LaPalme, Founder of Isaiah House
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About this episode:
Have you ever followed someone and their work so closely that you feel like you’re friends, but you’ve actually never met? That would be the case with today’s guest. I’m finally sitting down with Mark LaPalme, founder of Isaiah House who celebrates 23 years of sobriety and has been instrumental in helping thousands of people find recovery.
In addition to all the incredible recovery programs offered at Isaiah House, it is also host to an FDA trial for the NET device. If you’ve listened to any other episodes about this treatment option you’re going to share my excitement. The NET device has the potential to not only save many more lives, but if approved, will transform the entire world of drug rehab with its ability to reduce the detox process both in duration and side effects.
Listen to discover what pain led Mark to begin self-medicating at age 11, what kept him deeply addicted to both substances and the lifestyle that goes with it, and what support he found to leave that life behind. You’ll be blown away to hear about the comprehensive approach Isaiah House is using to empower people with tools they need to discover their purpose and transform their lives in recovery.
Episode resources
Learn more about the NET Device and how to become part of the FDA trial.
Episode 83 with documentary director Norman Stone
Episode 86 with NET Recovery Corp’s Owen Fielding
Episode 113 - Clinging to Hope; An Epic Saga Of Addiction, Medical Innovation, Loss, Recovery, Hope, and Unconditional Love
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Brenda: If you're parenting a teen or young adult child, who's experimenting with drugs and alcohol, or who's in active addiction in a treatment program or early recovery, you're in the right place.
I am Brenda Zane. Host and a mom who's been there. So just take a minute, exhale, know you're a really good company and this is your place to get some support in understanding and really great information. You can learn more about me and the work I do to serve parents like you@brendazane.com. Do you ever have that thing happen where you know of someone and because you know so much about them, you kind of feel like, you know, This is how I feel about my guest today, because I know a lot about his work and I've kind of circled around him for over a year.
And I feel like we're old friends, but in fact, we had never spoken until we recorded this conversation. If you've listened to any of the episodes about net, the device that is currently undergoing FDA trials for opioid addiction treatment, you may have heard me talk about Isaiah house because it's the program where the trial is taking place.
But I had heard of Isaiah house before that and read the history and my mind was a little bit blown. So I've been orbiting around this place for a while. So then when I started researching net and I had Norman stone on episode 83 and then Owen fielding on episode 86, and then the most epic episode I have ever done, which was number one 13 with Patty and Becca.
I knew I needed to get Mr. Mark Le Palm on the show because he's the guy who started Isaiah house. And by now I felt like we were BFF. Mark has one of the most incredible recovery stories I've ever heard. You can read the whole thing on Isaiah house's website, which I will link to in the show notes. And it will definitely give you hope and encouragement that it is never too late for someone to change.
Mark. And I talk about his journey through a pretty crazy life. We walk through his addiction, the insights that he has gleaned from helping thousands of people change their lives. And then we also talk about net. And if you haven't listened to the episodes that I mentioned, just know that this is a noninvasive non-medication treatment.
That's being trialed for FDA approval for opioid addiction. It electronically stimulates parts of the brain and takes away withdrawal symptoms and cravings. So someone can begin to work through the issues that led them to their substance. Much much sooner. This is a crisis conversation that I know you're gonna wanna dive into.
So please enjoy what I know. You'll find to be a lot of wisdom and a lot of hope from Mark Le Palm, a person in 23 years of long-term recovery and owner of Isaiah house in Willis, Kentucky. Enjoy. Well, mark, I'm thrilled to finally get you on the podcast. I feel like I've been around Isaiah house for a while, although we have never connected.
So this is truly special. So thank you so much for joining me on hope stream.
Mark: Yeah, I'm so excited to be here. Um, I think we were connected maybe about actually maybe a year ago initially, and I'm not sure we ever got quite got together. Um, but I think as I look back at my emails, I saw one. Uh, that surprised me.
I don't know if I just didn't reply or if I missed it or if we just never hooked up ,
Brenda: you know, that happens. And what I have found in this whole journey of podcasting is that things happen when they're supposed to happen? Well, not just in podcasting, in life, in general, but also in podcasting that these conversations happen when they're supposed to happen.
And so I feel like now is the time. Yeah, I. And so I'm just so excited to meet you and talk with you. And I have so much love for, I say a house I'm just dying to get on a road trip so I can come out and see you guys. Um, I worked with, I wanna say it's vine, it's Valvoline in Lexington. Yeah. Yeah. I worked with them back in my corporate life, um, when I was in advertising and we were doing some work with vine and so I spent some time out there and it was just beautiful.
I was like, it's just like the movies with the rolling green Hills and the white picket fences and the horses. I mean just stunning, stunning
Mark: area where you are. It is. Yeah, it is. It's absolutely.
Brenda: Yeah. Well, why don't we give people a, um, just a taste of who you are, and I know we could probably do a whole like Netflix series on your life, just, just your life before you even started Isaiah house.
But, um, maybe you can give us the cliff notes version on mark and what you went through and then how. That has connected you now into doing the work that you're doing. So, um, I'll let you take that at whatever level you want.
Mark: all right. All right. Yeah. Thank you. So I, you know, I began, uh, using at the age of 11, um, and actually I started using as a result of me saving, uh, a kid's.
Um, we were where we weren't supposed to be. We were at a, a cow pond in the cow. Ponds in Connecticut are generally these huge artesian Wells. And one of my buddies fell in and, uh, the two of us, the two remaining, uh, kids, we were 11 and 12 years old, uh, pulled, pulled him out. It was the middle of November.
So we're. Uh, and you know, in lots of clothes and the way that the clothes was bringing him down. And, um, the, the kid that we saved ended up, um, later on offering me a joint. Um, and, and that's where it all began for me, um, was with that, that one joint. So, um, over the course of time, I would overdose twice.
I'd attempt suicide twice. Um, I'd be arrested about 40 to 50 times, um, sentenced to six years in prison in Connecticut. I didn't serve six years. Um, but I was sentenced to six years. Thankfully or, or I don't know if it was my detriment. I did get out early. Um, sometimes prison or jail can be a, a godsend. I know for, for family, especially mm-hmm , um, you know, sometimes it's the only time that mom and dad can sleep.
Yeah. Um, so, uh, but I, I did not do six years. I actually got out in six months. Um, Uh, I'm gonna be married three times two divorces. Um, I'll go through 13 different treatment centers in my journey to get sober. You know, a ton of destruction that was left behind, you know, is just truly immeasurable, you know, from parents and siblings and girlfriends and wives and children, and even grandchildren today, I 12 grandchildren today.
And wow. You know, the consequences of my actions are still still being Reed. Uh, even. Been sober for 23 years, this past July 1st, so, wow. Congratulations. yeah, thank you. Yeah. Yeah. I never thought that would ever happen and I never thought I'd be able to say that. And uh it's yeah, I say it with a smile. Oh, for
Brenda: sure.
So let, wait, I just have to go back to a couple of things here already. Okay. you've stopped me in my tracks a couple of times already. First, I think you said 40 to 50. Is was that right?
Mark: Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So mostly, you know, disturbing the peace mm-hmm , um, third degree assaults, domestic violence, um, failure to pay child support those types of those types of crimes.
Brenda: Wow. Um, and then the other thing that you said that I think is just really important for parents to hear who might be listening is the, what I'm gonna guess. Is it the trauma that. Of that experience with you saving your friend who I think at face value, we would say, oh, that's a trauma because it seems like a good thing.
Like, oh, you saved your friend, but do you think that that. Was internalized in yourself as a trauma because I could see how that could easily happen. Yeah.
Mark: I, I agree with you. I think though the trauma that actually led to me having very low self esteem goes back to my dad. Um, you know, um, my, I come from a very good family.
Uh, my mom and dad were married for 54 years. Um, but I was the last child. Um, and my siblings were much older than me. My youngest sister is 13 years older than me and, and I, I never had, I remember going up to my dad, he was working on a car and I remember, you know, wanting to help him and he sued me away.
Um, and that was, that set me on a trajectory of just having absolutely no self-esteem and it was something so simple. So, you know, we do it probably all the time with, you know, I mean, with our ch we just don't think about, you know, how big of an impact that that could have on, on a child. Right. You know, I, I wasn't molested, I wasn't abused necessarily, but that one moment.
I think as I look back probably defined all of my choices, uh, for the next, you know, decades. Mm.
Brenda: So incredible. And I think that's, I'm trying to highlight those little things more in, in the podcast because you're right. I don't think we think about those things for us. It's like, oh, I'm busy. I've gotta get this done.
Right. I've got 20,000 other things on my mind. just let me get this done. Don't you know, and we could shoot them away or just those little impacts that yeah. We don't realize are huge impacts.
Mark: Yeah, absolutely. And my dad was, you know, much older than, um, and so I, I, I, I can't recall, you know, I didn't, my father didn't abuse me or, or, or anything like that, but, you know, we, we never played ball together.
We never went fishing together. And that one moment, um, where he chewed me away, as I, as I look back at it, you know, I think I wondered how come we never played ball? How come we never went fishing? How come we never did things together? We never went camping together. That kind of a thing. Right. Um, and then it made, you know, it made the desire to be, you know, that peer pressure in trying to find people where you belong, it made it so, so much more prevalent for.
Right. Just to fit in
Brenda: somewhere yeah. To, to right. To fit in somewhere, to be valued somewhere. Um, and what I've learned is the bar is pretty low with the group of people who are, you know, the, that group of people. Um, they don't have an exceptionally high bar for your behavior or your, you know, anything it's like,
Mark: yeah's correct.
Yeah. Oh, you have a pulse. Yeah. exactly. And you're gonna show me some attention. Yeah. Yes, exactly. Oh
Brenda: my gosh. And then the other thing that you said that I think is so important to highlight is I never thought I would be able to say that about having 23 years sober. And that is so important because if, if somebody.
Really struggling. I think there is that feeling of I'm never going to get out of this. Hmm. There's just no way. Take the substances, even out of it, like you said, the destruction that is left behind, like how am I gonna deal with that?
Mark: Yeah. Yeah. Getting sober really is, is fairly simple. Maintaining sobriety is rather difficult and, and then maintain, you know, living life on life's terms.
I've always heard that. And doing it sober is, is even way more difficult. You know, a lot of people can, um, normal folks, I call, I call, you know, other people normal. Um, but you know, somebody normal folks can go out and have a drink. You know, I can't do that. That just can't happen. And I was a polysubstance abuser.
Um, so there's, you know, I can't smoke one joint. I can't do one snort. I can't have one drink it's I it's, it's beyond my capability. Um, and so once. You know, I, I got some sober time then it was learning to deal with all of the ramifications of my choices. Yeah. The consequences of my choices throughout, you know, the, the, you know, three decades, almost three decades of, of consequences coming at me.
Uh, nobody wants to hire you. Uh, you know, do you have a valid driver's license where the license is suspended? Do I have warrants in other states, other counties, other areas? Um, you know, two ex-wives isn't easy to deal with, right? Yeah. ,
Brenda: there's some significant baggage there that you're lugging around with you.
There is.
Mark: Yeah.
Brenda: Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So that's a lot. So then. What happens, because so now you are how old kind of when, when things start to change or, or what was the change for you? Yeah,
Mark: I think the catalyst for change, there were a couple of things that happened. My mom died January of 99. My mother was my biggest enabler.
I. Uh, you know, I could always call mom and, and, and get a, get outta jail free card, or, uh, you know, I can't pay my rent or I can't pay my car payment or I can't do this. And so mom was always there for me. So mom passed away. She was 72 years old. I was 36 years old at the time, January of 1999. And, uh, for me, the, the next.
Largest person in my life. Most influential person in my life was my grandmother. She was raised in, well, she raised me. She was in, in our home. Um, and she passed away at a hundred years old in March. And so both of my enablers were, were gone. Um, and then it was, you know, this set of, you know, Fortunate circumstances for me, I think in the long run, um, was, was that happening coinciding with a, a spiritual experience for me, that just absolutely changed my life.
And that was July 1st, 1999. Um, and I I've just never looked back. I've never gone back I've um, I, I think I had, it was about six months in of sobriety and it was my brother-in-law's birthday and we went to, I think it was an Outback or something like that. And, um, I had one drink that I was six months sober and I had one drink.
And I just remember this overwhelming feeling. And I, I, to this day, I, I say it was God talking to me. Um, but I had this overwhelming feeling like I'm gonna let you get away with it. This one time, but I will never let you get away with it again. Um, and I never, I just never went back. I've I've I've not had any, you know, relapses or, or anything like that.
Brenda: Wow. That's incredible. Just that you had the, the awareness of that moment. Yeah. Is incredible.
Mark: Yeah. Well, I, you know, I, I think you get to a point where you, you know, you realize that and look, the drugs are different today than what they were then, you know, I didn't even, I mean, you know, now it's fentanyl and, and, and, or car fentanyl and one hit can literally kill you.
You know, it, I, I mean, I was doing heroin and crystal meth and all that other stuff, but it wasn't like it is. Yeah. Uh, and we just see so much, you know, just one time and I don't have it in me anymore. I just don't. And, and I'm 61 today. And so I'm glad I don't have it in me anymore. thanks.
Brenda: Well, it, it seems like you might have lived several lives, um, over, during that time.
So I think you've earned your, your peace and quiet. I'm wondering if you could just take us a little bit into the mindset of somebody who is. In their thirties has kind of caused the level of destruction that you have at that point using the substances. And it sounded like I've, I have read the very, very long story about you on your website, which if you're listening, I will put a link to in the show notes, cuz you are going to wanna read this, but it sounds like you are a fairly functioning to some degree user and.
I wonder if you could just take us into the mindset. Cause I think there's a lot of parents who are listening, going, how does somebody live their life like this? And yeah. What is the mindset that you have during that time?
Mark: Yeah, I think, you know, when I look back at, at, at me, I was so in 1987, I was the number two Susie salesman in the United States.
And so I was fairly functional when I wasn't being arrested or in treatment. Right. Um, and so I was kind of able to, you know, keep a house payment going and, and that kind of stuff for the most part from 1989 forward to 1999. But, you know, I, I, I look back and I go. You know, when I first started using, I started using to fit in and I think that's probably what most of us would say.
And, and then as time goes on, you just don't see a way out. It's not about fitting in anymore. It's just about feeling normal and that's where the disease. Takes over. And, and so while, you know, I, I believe that that addiction is far more than just the disease. I believe it is a choice, um, as well. I think when we try to put it in a box, we, we fail people.
Um, and so I made the choice to use, I've gotta make the choice to not use, um, but I was also co-occurring. Um, and so I had other mental health issues that were coinciding. With my addiction. And so now I'm not using, you know, to feel good anymore or, or, or to, to fit in anymore. I'm using just to feel normal.
And so, you know, when you wake up in the morning, the first thing you think of is, uh, I mean, in order for me to function in order for me to work in order for me to be a dad, in order for me to be a husband, that's going to engage on any level. I've got to do this. And, and whatever that is, if that's a drink or if it's, you know, uh, uh, smoking a joint or a, or slamming a, you know, slamming dope, it, it, it doesn't matter, whatever it is.
It just it's just to feel normal. Yeah. Um, and then, and then it becomes this thing where you sort of become addicted, not just to the drug, but the environment and the atmosphere. You know, the chaos of it, uh, you know, there, uh, I couldn't sit still, right. I enjoyed for a moment, the chaos of it all. Um, for some of it, you know, just the chase of the dope, um, was, was, was a high, you know, I remember, you know, I'm from con.
And here I am in, in Kentucky. Um, and I'm in a three piece suit and I've got a nine millimeter in, in, in, in my pants. Um, and I'm sitting out in Lebanon, Kentucky where I have absolutely no, you know, I don't belong there and I'm, I'm waiting for hours for cocaine, you know, and, and it's just, but it was all part of it.
It was, and I gave up my time. Children. I give up my time with my family to sit there for hours. Hey, where's the dope man? Well, he said he is on his way and you know, so before you know it, you, there are 4, 5, 6 hours waiting, just waiting an anticipation of, of feeling normal. You know, and then once you get the dope, you have every anticipation of, uh, or expectation of going, being with your family.
But that doesn't happen either. Right. You know, because now I have the dope and now I've gotta use it. And once I start using it, I'm out of control. Right. There's just, there's no control left.
Brenda: Hello. I am jumping in for just a minute to let you know that there's a very special community. I created online where moms of kids who are misusing or addicted to substances, gather together and get through the hard stuff with each other.
It's called the stream. And it's unique in that it is not a Facebook group and we focus on positively holding each other up. When our kids are struggling. It's a place where we focus on you, because if you are one of these amazing moms, there is a lot of focus on your son or daughter, but who's taking care of you.
That's what we do. And we would love to have you join us and get a team around you, help you learn some great tools. Are encouraging change in your child and to have a place to connect with real moms who get it, you can take a look@ourmembershipoptionsatthestreamcommunity.com and I will see you there.
Now let's get back to the conversation. So interesting. It kind of sounds like, you know, we, we talk or we hear a lot about homeostasis and how we're always trying to find this level of homeostasis, but what it sounds like. The chaos was your homeostasis. Yes. And so when, when you go to upset that all of a sudden nothing works, because now you.
The lack of chaos is the chaos. Is that
Mark: that's correct? Absolutely. Well said. Yeah.
Brenda: Interesting. So I think that's an insight that is really important for people to understand. Is it just, if you're, like you said, if you're a normal person, if you're on the outside looking in, it's just so logical, right? Like you, we just be as parents, especially we beat our heads against the wall saying how could my kid not see this.
And when I say kid that, you know, if you're 30, that extend. Yes. Yes. That just, that doesn't mean that they're little kids. That's right. It's more of the relationship. But, um, so I think that's really insightful is it's not as easy as it looks from the outside to untangle this ball of
Mark: TW that's. Right. And then you, you know, combine it with the co-occurring disorders.
Right. You know, the depression, anxiety issues. Polar or schizophrenic or paranoid or, you know, and then what what's drug induced and what's organic. Yeah. You know, um, it just makes it so very complicated. It really does.
Brenda: Right. And today with the, you know, with marijuana inducing so much psychosis, I think that's also so confusing.
Yeah. Cause it's like, what is this that I'm dealing with? And if we could get rid of the marijuana, would the psychosis subside so very, very confusing. Um, So, wow. So that's so 36, you have a, a very impactful spiritual experience. You decide you're gonna make some change. You have the Outback experience with the drink.
No more of that. How, what, where's the Genesis of Isaiah house? How does somebody. What I'm envisioning you. And I love the, I love the visual in my brain of you with the gun and, you know, Kentucky from like, that's just a fantastic, like, it sounds like a character out of a movie. Um, walk us through how you go from that to starting this.
Incredible. The, the program that you have today and we'll get into what Isaiah house is today, but I'm just trying to find the bridge between that really big gap.
Mark: so, you know, we started backwards. Um, I shouldn't be where I'm at. Right. I got kicked outta high school with my diploma. They were kind of like here, take this and don't come back.
Um, but I did have the experience of 13 different treatment centers and several homeless shelters and things like that. So, and I think it was August 17th, 1999. We took our first person into our home and we really, um, just wanted to be what we felt worthy, arms and feet of Jesus. We just wanted to be, uh, love people.
And so, you know, it was our intention to. Be like a gospel rescue mission. Um, and so we did that for, I think we took about 300 people into our home over, over a course of almost three years. Um, we had, you know, blind people, deaf people, pregnant women and families and train hobos and all of that. And we, it was a good, um, experience for us because when the first Isaiah house officially opened, which was November of 2000 and, and one.
We ended up having all that experience of dealing with all these different kinds of people. And the main reason for homelessness in our area at the time was two reasons. It was, you know, mental health issues, um, normally with co-occurring, uh, substance use disorder, right. And so you didn't, you know, it's like, well, why are they coming back?
We got them a job. right. Um, and why, why are we seeing you back at our door again, looking for food or a car payment or, or things like that. And I really felt like that gave me the permission to metal a little bit. So we started asking questions and come to find out the. They were all suffering from the same things I was, I was suffering from.
And so, you know, I would say maybe 20% of the people that were coming in were legitimately, um, uh, they had just lost their job maybe, or just in a bad spot and we could give them a hand up, but other folks really needed, um, what I would call, you know, long term discipleship. And it's something that the church doesn't do very well at.
I don't think today. So we. Flipped our modeled from being a, uh, um, uh, rescue mission to actually be becoming a treatment center right around 2004, 2005. We started that transition and in 2004, I th we were named like one of Kentucky's best and most effective treatment. Providers. Wow. Um, and, and it was just Tammy and myself.
Um, we had a couple of part-time volunteers. We had a, a, a part-time volunteer therapist and things like that, but it was really just about investing in people and loving on them, loving them through. I remember, you know, we didn't have detox then. And so, uh, just, you know, laying under their bed and, and crying with them, cleaning up their vomit and, and all that other stuff.
And, uh, they saw that we cared and when we had a. Very cool successes, uh, through that period. But you know, today, um, it's a different day and the drugs are different today. And so now we've got, I think near 300 residential beds. We've got eight licensed and accredited campuses covering five counties in the state.
We've got another 220 transitional living beds in eight counties. We've got, I think 29 transitional living homes, all totaled. Um, we have our main campuses in accredited college. We've got academic and trade opportunities from welding to HVAC and, and, uh, we've got a. Two outpatient clinics in one primary care center.
And so it, for me, it goes back to the things that I learned in my 13 different treatment centers. The model then is still the model today and in my opinion's the failed model. And that model is based on funding streams. Mm-hmm um, and so everybody jumps in and the, the, the largest funding stream is detox.
That's where, you know, people like me get paid the most. And then the next largest funding stream is. Short term treatment and then everything after that, which is my dad used to say, you know, something like, you really don't know how it's gonna work until the bugs bust the windshield. I think, you know, it's that past 30 days is where the bugs start busting the windshield.
Mm, and nothing. There is no funding for that necessarily. And that's really where the majority of the services are needed. So we, we really just set out to remove those silos that funding streams created and try to develop a real continuity of care for the clients that were coming our way. So we developed an 11 month program, sort of an indefinite, um, length of stay for aftercare.
So that's our, our main model. And, and I think that's really where you start to see, because when people come in, they they're just like me, you know, they couldn't get a job. Uh, they haven't held a job in so long. They had all these dysfunctional relationships, whether it was with spouses or, or girlfriends or boyfriends, and then family, um, they had ex you know, they had legal issues.
They had educational issues. Well, you can't fix that in 28 days. It's just not. Yeah. And so, you know, what are we gonna do? Um, what are we gonna do if we really wanna see long term success and we really want to be effective in changing somebody's life, we've gotta jump into the middle of the mess with them and into the middle of the madness with them.
And, and I think that causes you to think outside the box. One of the things we do, I think that's really cool. We had a lot of our people were, you know, going to buy here, pay here lots, um, because they'd get outta treat. They would save up maybe $2,000 while they're in our program, through their job. And then they'd, you know, the first thing they wanna do is buy a car.
Well, they'd go and, you know, get insurance, which isn't cheap if you've got a few DUIs yes. Um and then you gotta pay to get your license back and do it. All right. Right. Yeah. And so you've got maybe a thousand dollars left to put down on a $2,000 card that you're gonna pay 30% interest on. And, and so we, um, started a loan program for our clients where we put $200,000 into a CD account and the client can go borrow against that CD at 3%.
Wow. Um, and build their credit, um, because if I don't help them, you know, if all we do is leave them with a 400 credit score, dealing with buy hair, pay hair, lots. I gotta tell you that something bad's going to happen. I call those lapse moments. And so we've gotta remove as many of those lapse moments as.
And that includes higher education, connecting them to, you know, to colleges and certificate programs and things like that. All of that enables somebody to not just find hope, but to find purpose. And then, you know, to have the opportunity to be used in that new purpose that they found.
Brenda: Yeah. I think people forget about those practical aspects.
The recovery process of getting a car, getting your driver's license back. What do you do with a credit score that is in the toilet? What do you do? Yeah. Right. All of those things that are difficult for anybody to navigate, let alone somebody who's trying to do it without the bandaid that they've been using for the last 15 years.
That has made it all kind of numb and, and manageable. So you rip that bandaid off that's right. And now you still have all of these things to deal with. So I just that's right. It's so encouraging to hear that you have thought through all of those lapse moments, um, And, and as parents, that's a really good insight to look at.
These are some of the things that we might overlook and we would think, come on, you're 25 years old, you go get your driver's license, right. That's yeah. The mindset that we can have and not realizing how difficult that might be, that could be a lapse moment.
Mark: Well, uh, like, like even with me, there were moments that there are things I didn't wanna remember.
Yeah. You know, because they were so embarrassing to me that I didn't wanna remember where the warrants were. Right. You know, so I didn't wanna remember where I lost my license because I've been driving with a fake license for three years or five years. Yeah. You know, so you tend to just put those things.
Behind you and they're gone, you know, you don't think about it. You don't dwell on it. You just move on the best you can, um, with, with what you're dealing with. So there, there are things that came up. We still deal with it today where we'll have somebody in the program for 11 months or longer. And then all of a sudden, and our guys do a great job.
Our, our, our guys and girls, as far as like our case management team, we're always looking for warrants because the last thing I want is for somebody to be in the program for 90 days or 120 days, and the probation officer or the parole officer shows up at the door and says, Hey, we're taking, you know, we're taking Jessica out of the program.
Right, right, right. That can't happen. Um, We still miss things because you know, travel is so easy today and yeah. Uh, people get, you know, so, wow. This guy had a warrant in Utah, you know, who, who knew right. Who who's in Utah for one day and we got a warrant.
Brenda: I think you must be talking about my son . That sounds, that sounds very familiar.
Yes.
Mark: It's you, you lose that. Yeah. And then you lose that person, you know, so developing good relationships with the courts, making sure the courts won't pull them outta treatment, that they'll work with you. And as long as that person stays in treatment, we can maybe handle the warrant, you know, in a, in a different way at a later day kind of thing.
So just processing through all of those lapses
Brenda: moments. Right. So important. So important. Yeah. It sounds like you're, you're really providing buoyancy in those early days where one little thing could just pull you down and sink you and you're like, no, no, no, we got it. We we're gonna help you through this.
We're gonna look for those warrants. That's we're gonna help you get that car without, you know, bankrupting you. So I think those. The, the little things that are the huge things that we might overlook, um, in that process. Yeah. Yeah. I would love as much as we could talk about this for the next seven days.
I would love to get some insight from you. You've seen thousands of people go through treatment, and I just wonder if there's one or two. Insights that come to the top of mind for you that a parent or somebody who loves somebody who's in this struggle might benefit from, as you know, I believe that success leaves clues.
And so I just wonder from your vantage point of looking at all of these human souls that have come to you, so broken, so damaged, and then you see them transform, what are the things that we should know about that?
Mark: Yeah, that's a, you know, that's such a hard question. It really is. I know, um, it is, it's so difficult, but I think if there were some things that stood out, number one is, you know, don't, don't quit loving them and giving don't give up on them.
Don't give up on us. The, you know, the vast majority of us do find our way out. Um, it, it does take time. I know we tend to focus on, you know, We've lost so many. And, and each one of those lives was extremely valuable and losing. One of them was tragic on the other side of things though. So many more of us do make it out.
And so I think there's a tendency to look at all of the, the, you know, the deaths and the negatives and go, gee, this is, you know, I, I, this is gonna be the end for. you know, and so we start to disassociate just to protect our own selves. Right, right. Um, and so I think, you know, one thing would be to just always, you know, let them know that you love them and let them know that you're there for them.
And what I mean by that is not enabling. And so this would be the, the second part of it. Um, You know, you, you can't continue to, you know, be their attorney. You can't continue to be their employer. You can't continue to pay their car payment. You can't continue to do that. Um, I I've got to come to this proverbial, whatever that is bottom.
For me. Um, and I know my mom probably said, gee, I thought you were at bottom last year. right. I took, then I took a nose dive off of that shelf, right? Yeah. She didn't, she didn't realize there was another bottom yes.
Brenda: Well goes deeper.
Mark: We didn't know that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but let them find that.
And I think if you're going to enable you enable it with one way and one way only, and that's to help them find treatment. Right. Uh, that's the only thing that you can do because you can't fix it. It takes outsiders to come in. It takes professionals, it takes peers. It takes people that have been through it.
And even if you're in recovery, you can't. Yeah, you've gotta, you've gotta trust the process with the people that are gonna try to help. And then I think thirdly, I, I would vet programs very well. You know, um, we are state licensed, we're nationally accredited. We're licensed for a 3.5 level of ACM care. You know, anything less than that.
becomes questionable. Um, and so, you know, if there are no, no minimal state standards that are being met and things like that, I would tend to stay away from those, those programs.
Brenda: Right? Yep. Do your homework. It's do your homework. It's what I say to parents is you can't fix them. So use that time to go do all the research to find the best program.
Yes. And put it on a post-it note on the fridge so that when they're ready. You've already, you know, you've done that. Yes. And it's a good distraction in the meantime. Yeah.
Mark: And, and Brenda, don't wait till they're ready to start researching. Right, right. Because you've gotta be, when they say I'm ready, you better have a plan and it better be lickity split because if you give them two hours, To think about it.
Yes. You know, I'm going to change my mind. yes.
Brenda: Literally hours.
Mark: Minutes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Minutes. Yeah.
Brenda: Yeah. Yep. Yep. Get that plane ticket dusted off and ready to go. Cause that's right. Yeah. Wow. Well, I know, um, If, if people are listening and they've listened to a couple of episodes, one is number 86 with Owen fielding about, um, net recovery.
And then the other is episode one 13 with, uh, Patty and her daughter, Becca. If you've listened to those. You are now listening to the man whose program they were talking about. And so I'd love to get some, um, insider scoop from you on how in the world you came across net. Uh, and, and I'll, I'll put all this information in the show note.
So if you're listening and you're like, what is she talking about? It will be there. Uh, so just know that you can learn there, but. um, is currently under FDA trial at Isaiah house. And I think we are all, at least from Seattle, you're getting lots of positive energy. I'm sending all my good, yes. Vibes your way to make this, um, super successful.
But tell us a little bit about how you came to find out about net and then how Isaiah house is using that, um, to help people with specifically right now with opioid a. So
Mark: this was stupid. It really was. So I'm, we're in the middle of, you know, um, uh, Lincoln county, Kentucky, we're out in the middle of the sticks and, uh, I get a knock on my door and it's this guy that speaks Scottish.
I could barely understand him. Um, his name was Giles and they were in Kentucky because one of, um, one of the most influential families in the state of Kentucky had a sister that had Ms. and through the course of her, Ms. Actually had become addicted to opiates and painkillers. And so they had done the research and they heard of the neck device, um, in Scotland and they, they ended up bringing them to Lincoln county.
And while they were in Lincoln county, they were like, while they're any treatment centers around here and they showed up and they showed up at my door, cuz I was the only. And, uh, so they, they leave this device with me and it was very archaic. Then it was much different than what the device is today. So we tried it.
Um, we didn't know what we were doing with it. I don't know if they knew what they were doing with it at the moment, to be honest with you. So, you know, we had it, I think for two weeks or three weeks, it was just while they were in the states and then they took it back. And I, I thought that was the end.
And in 2010, uh, I got another call from Mer and, uh, and her husband, and they were wondering if we would, um, at, by that time we were state licensed. Prior to that, we were unlicensed and unregulated. At this time we were state licensed, nationally accredited. And so they were, they were wondering if they could use the Isaiah house as.
As a, a base for, um, an FDA clinical trial with the net device. And so, because of my previous experience with it, I was a little hesitant mm-hmm , but they had really refined their processes, um, to make our clinical team and our medical team feel very, very comfortable with this. And so we did, I think it was maybe, uh, a two month FDA clinical trial.
We had a certain amount of people that we had to hit, and here's what I saw. And again, I got kicked outta high school with my diploma. I just wanna reiterate that, but here's what I know. I know that when I do heroin, In about 12 hours or so I'm gonna be really, really agitated. And within 24 hours, I'm gonna be really, really sick if I don't get another fix.
Yeah. And the reason that happens is because I've bankrupted my, my dopamine receptors, right. I've, I've done a massive dump and there's nothing left. And the only way I can restimulate those receptors into working correctly again and produce dopamine again, to make me feel normal, again, is either to do more.
Or waited out. Two years right. Or, or the net device. Um, and so what we saw was people were coming in and, and not just opiate users, this thing is so remarkable. It really does take me off that we're having to fight so hard to get this thing to be FDA approved and used in multiple facilities in multiple states.
What I saw was people coming in that were poly substance abusers. and we do the cow scale, the cow scale measures, um, your, uh, withdrawal. Um, and so you wait until somebody's in full acute withdrawal, which means they, they hate you.
Brenda: right. They're very
Mark: mean to you. They're very mean. Yeah. They love you when they first came in, but they hate you now.
And they are very agitated. They have restless leg. Um, their eyes are watering, their nose is running. They probably have, you know, early stages of vomiting or diarrhea. And then we put the device on them and there's almost, it's. It's crazy, Brenda. I mean, if I didn't see it with my own eyes, I go you're, you're insane.
Yeah. There's almost an instant aha moment. It's almost instantaneous. It's it's within 40 minutes, but you see somebody. Their, their demeanor just change. Right? There's a calmness that sort of takes over the restless leg, starts to disappear. They're not as agitated within 24 hours of putting this device on, which is just two electrodes that go to the mastoid bone behind, uh, behind your ear lobe.
Um, it's attached to like an iPhone device with two electrodes. It's it's insane. And within 24 hours, they're eating, they're sleep. They're sleeping. Yeah. Um, within 48 hours, they're on my basketball court or on my baseball field playing ball. It's absolutely insane. And what that does is a treatment provider that provides somebody that's, um, cognitive and ready for what I've got to give them.
So much sooner, right? Because most of the walk offs we call it AMA that, right. They leave against medical advice. Most of those AMAs happen within a seven day period. Um, even if they're receiving some. Port of med, uh, some form of medication assisted treatment. So they'll because it's not the same, right?
Yeah. And so they'll, they'll walk off. The vast majority of them will walk off within those seven days. And with the net device, it just absolutely produces a, a client that's ready to receive everything. Our medical team is ready to give them our clinical team, our case management, our peer support, um, You know, much, much sooner than what they would normally be ready to do.
So I've, I've actually seen people come in that have failed eight out of a 12 panel test be put on. And that means, so they failed for heroin. They failed for Oxycontin. They failed for methamphetamine, cocaine, marijuana, alcohol, um, benzodiazepines, um, and throw in another one. Right. Probably MDMA. So probably it helps.
Brenda: Whatev what else? LSD.
Mark: Right? What? Yeah. Yeah. The cocktail, right? Yeah. And, and these people are, are detox, literally detoxed in five to seven days. It's so unreal. Total. Yeah. Yeah. It's so unreal. It's amazing. It is. And they're nice. They're sweet.
Brenda: they're they don't hate you. They don't hate you after that.
That's right. They S probably are so well, and I know, because if you, if, if you're listening, you, you listen to episode one 13, Becca talks about that. She's like, oh, I'm I was so embarrassed, cuz I was so mean when I got there and then 20 minutes later I was apologizing profusely. Like I'm so sorry. I, you know yeah.
Mark: Um, so turns them into mother Teresa
Brenda: right, right. So this device is, is under trial right now with you guys for, and I understand it has to only be one at a time. So right now it's for opiates. Um, which is good because fentanyl is a big deal and it's dropping a lot of bodies, so that's a good place to start.
Um, so we're very excited about that and. I, what I also understand is that there, there were other offers at other programs to trial this and the other programs turned it down because they said, well, it doesn't really fit our business model. Mm-hmm . And I can only imagine, and I talked about this a little bit with Owen on episode 86, um, about the fact that this will.
Because I know it's gonna get disrupted. So I am, I am just projecting that it will disrupt the model. Yeah. And how do you start to look at what that means? Like you said, well, this is awesome cuz now we have a malleable person who's willing to receive treatment, but it totally disrupts that detox in the first 30 days.
What do you think is gonna happen when, when this gets approved and starts being rolled out, you know, on a broader basis.
Mark: Yeah, I think in internally, you know, when I look at it, you know, there's still the, a lot of unbel trauma. There's still a lot of co-occurring issues, right. That many of us as addicts, um, have to deal with and have to learn how to cope and things like that.
So I, I don't see it as being that real major disruptor in long term, um, solutions. , you know? Yeah. It's, it's really a disruptor in that short term triage right moment. Um, and, and, and hopefully, because that's exactly what was said, you know, that they, they, it would, it didn't fit into their business model and I'm like, well, you need a new damn business model.
Right. Because if helping people get well, isn't your business model. Yeah. Uh, then,
Brenda: then maybe you should get into a different business.
Mark: yeah. Really pissed me off. Um, cause some of these places that they brought it to were, um, you know, very reputable places in the state of Kentucky. And we were, you know, we weren't ground zero, but we were very close to ground zero back in the Oxycontin, um, days, which was the precipitator of all of this.
Madness that we're in now. Um, so to say that just blew my mind, but some of their business models also include cold detox, you know, which I understand some of those models that are abstinence based where they don't want to get involved in methadone or, or Suboxone. Um, I understand that and I think this would be a good segue for them, you know, to actually have something that doesn't keep people addicted.
It offers a, a, a very clean. Alternative to a, you know, medication assisted treatment. And we do, we do, uh, we do Vivitrol, we do Suboxone, um, and we offer the net device. So I don't see them competing with one another, but because, you know, it's ultimately it's up to the client. Yeah. You know, ultimately it's up to that one person.
And I really do believe that there are, you know, every person has their own path to sobriety. I, I. Absolutely believe that, you know, mine was spiritual, uh, that doesn't work for everybody, you know? And so just providing, we, we use a very limited toolbox in the treatment field. Our toolbox has, you know, three or four tools in it.
Um, and so why not add this? Non-addictive very effective device to the toolbox just makes sense to
Brenda: me makes total sense. Right. And it, and it's, um, it's just something that. I think people are starting to hear about, I'm trying to shout it from the rooftops. Um, thank you. And yes. And I'm trying to, I, I put your phone number everywhere, cuz I want people to get into this trial so that it can, um, you know, get, get more widely used because I, I like what you said that this isn't, this isn't the end all be all.
So there's trauma underneath there's co-occurring disorders, but at least you give people the option of then dealing with those versus. You know, having to go through and, and I know this brutally, oh, just the, the withdrawal and the detox is just, I don't know if there's a statistic about how many people make it through that, you know, on their first try, but I gotta imagine it's fairly small.
Um, So, yeah, when you've got a, a human body where physically they're ready, you know, they've eaten, they've slept. I mean, some of those things are just basic. Like you have to be in a place where you can start to even think about that driver's license or. The ruined relationship with the parents or your children or whatever it is.
So
Mark: just so part, let me, let, let me share with you a sad fact about insurance, um, in, in these last few minutes. So I know that, um, in insurance pre COVID. Was authorizing that, you know, you have to get a residential length of state authorized with an insurance company. Yeah. And they were authorizing at pre COVID.
Sometimes wanted you to do a re-auth every three or four days. Wow. So, so that means at day one with, with a fresh client who is detoxing and withdrawing, we're working their, their exit plan on my day one. My gosh, that's just crazy. That's crazy, Brenda. You know, crazy. Right. And so you're, you're giving them, you're fast, feeding them.
You're force feeding them information that they are in no way capable of handling. And it it's, it's absolutely contrary to everything. Good. right. And everything. Right. You know. Yeah. And even now, even now, I mean, maximum amount of, uh, of office generally 28 to 30 days. And so think about it. If you got somebody that doesn't have this device and they've got a detox and the detox can take two weeks, right.
You're, you're, you're working their, you know, their, their exit plan. Almost immediately. Well, before they have the cognitive ability to even process what you're telling them, right. It's sad. It's a, it's a wicked system. It really is. It
Brenda: really is. So this just speeds that up to the point where they can get more constructive healing.
That's correct. Under their belt. Yes.
Mark: Okay.
Brenda: Absolutely. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Instead of like, let me pause, throwing up here so that I can, you know yes. Think about what I'm gonna be, where I'm gonna be going next because
Mark: yes. Or I haven't slept for seven days and now you're, you know, you're talking me about what.
You know, getting my license back or an apartment or aftercare or IOP or, or a job, you know, we list off, you have a job. Yeah. like, what's
Brenda: that?
Mark: That's right. Yeah. That's right.
Brenda: Oh, I'm so glad you said that. Cuz that makes a ton of sense. Um, and just, yeah, very, very logical. So while this has been incredible again, if you're listening in the show notes, Brenda zane.com/podcast, you will find.
All the information about Isaiah house, about the trial. If you wanna get, um, somebody that you love into that, we'll put that information there and we'll just stay in touch because I have a feeling this is not the last time. We'll
Mark: talk. Yay. I hope so. I hope I, I hope you get to visit too. Oh,
Brenda: I definitely am gonna come visit.
Yeah, we're gonna do a little road trip, come out and see you guys. And, um, And by then, we'll just, um, we'll be celebrating that the, the trial's over and that this is ready to go. That's my hope. Yay.
Mark: yeah, mine too. Mine too. Thank you so
Brenda: much, Brenda. Okay. We'll talk soon.
Mark: All right. Take care. Okay. Bye-bye bye bye.
Brenda: Okay. That is it for today. If you would like to get the show notes for this episode, you can go to Brenda zane.com/podcast. All of the episodes are listed there and you can also find curated playlists there. So that's very helpful. You might also wanna download a free ebook. I wrote it's called hindsight three things.
I wish I knew when my son was misusing drugs. It'll give you some insight as to why your son or daughter might be doing what they are. And importantly, it gives you tips on how to cope and how to be more healthy through this rough time, you can grab that free from Brenda zane.com/hindsight. Thank you so much for listening.
I appreciate it. And I hope that these episodes are helping you stay strong and be very, very good to yourself. And.