the importance of digging deep into the “why” when your child is misusing drugs or alcohol, with advocate Tonia Ahern
Host: Brenda Zane, brenda@brendazane.com
Guest: Tonia Ahern, Advocate, & Certified Recovery and Parent Coach
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About this episode:
Have you ever felt overwhelmed when you realize just how many layers there are to the addiction that is derailing your son or daughter? When we get curious and focus on asking questions, it’s incredible what we can learn about our kids. For so many, an unrecognized mental health diagnosis is at the root of their pain and substance use.
My guest today is Tonia Ahern. She’s a mom who lost her son, Rory, to an opioid addiction and now fights to change legislation to support prevention, evidence based treatment practices, recovery support programs, and family support. Tonia is also a certified recovery and parent coach who emphasizes the CRAFT method in every aspect of her practice. Not only is she a knowledgeable resource, she’s also a mom who knows exactly what you’re likely walking through.
episode resources
Partnership To End Addiction (website)
SAMHSA (website)
Full Recovery by Brian McAllister (book)
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Brenda: Welcome. You are listening to hopes, dream the podcast for parents who have a child misusing or addicted to drugs or alcohol. I am Brenda Zane, I'm your host. And also a parent who lived through this challenge so I can relate. And it's why I created the podcast. If you're listening here, it is likely you need a soft spot to land from time to time where someone completely gets what you're going through and will be alongside you on the roller coaster.
You are riding. That's what hope dream is. So you're in really good company. And you can just exhale for the next hour and soak up some really good information. I'm so glad you are taking this time for yourself because in turn, it's helping you help your person who is struggling. You can learn more about me and how I serve parents at my website.
Brenda, zane.com. It is really good to be here with you today. I have to say how in awe I am. When I hear from people who say they have listened to every episode of hope stream, which is also a little nerve wracking because there have been a few episodes, especially early on in 2020, where I truly didn't have any idea what I was doing.
And when I've gone back and listened, I cringe a little bit. But anyway, I know you may be a long time listener and you've had me in your ears maybe a hundred times or more, and that is very humbling and also very inspirational. It makes me really happy because it means you are all in on this battle and you're learning as much as you can as often as you can.
And that's incredible. And I so wish that I had found more resources when I was in the thick of it with our family's fight. And it's also very important to get some space from this as well. So please be sure to take some time each. To fully immerse your mind and even your body, if possible, in something unrelated to mental health and substance use, getting some space away from it will actually increase your ability to solve problems better, come up with more options in creative ways to try new things.
And it just gives you a reset that is so needed. So make that your experiment, this. See, what you can do that feels great. Gets you fully distracted for at least an hour. And preferably it's not work related this week. I am highlighting another incredible advocate in the world of mental health and substance use.
If you listened last month on episode 1 24, you heard Janet James talk about the organization. She started called mothers against prescription drug abuse or ma. Today, you'll hear from another fired up mom who has turned the tragedy of her son's death into rocket fuel for being a voice for those who aren't seen or heard because of their substance use issues.
Tonia Ahern is a solid fixture in the state of new Jersey's substance use and mental health world, where she testifies regularly to support bills related to substance use disorder. And as a team leader for the national council for alcoholism and drug dependence, or N C a D D all the acronyms, she participates in two counties, opiate task forces, and is the current chairperson for the New Jersey department of addiction services, citizens advisory committee.
We like all of our big words in this. Tonia is a certified recovery coach through full recovery and is a national parent coach for the partnership to end addiction, which is how we met each other. This shift toward advocacy came about because Tonia’s oldest son struggled for over a decade with substance use and mental health issues.
And her family felt helpless, full of fear and isolated because of. While researching treatment options for her son, Tanya became actively involved with parent to parent an organization founded by four mothers, three who had lost their sons to overdose. And in 2011, she became involved in working to change legislation, to support prevention, evidence based treatment practices.
Recovery support programs and family support, Tanya advocates in too many ways to list here. But basically if you say the word substance use in the state of New Jersey, Tonia is probably behind anything that you find helpful. I am so amazed by women like Tonia and Janet who have experienced the devastating loss.
We all dread and have turned it into something helpful and hopeful for other. It's such an honor to speak with them and to learn from them that I know you want to get in on the conversation. So please listen now to this beautiful dialogue with advocate and mom, Tonia are, I'll see you on the side. Well, Tanya, thank you so much for hopping on the phone with me and spending a little bit of time in the summer to talk about, I think something that's a favorite of yours and mine, which is, um, craft advocacy, recovery, um, helping families sort of that whole ball of wax.
So, um, welcome to hope stream.
Tonia: Well, thank you for having me. I'm very excited to be here and to talk about our favorite subject.
Brenda: I know it's kind of a weird favorite subject, right? I feel like normal people have different
Tonia: subjects that they like to. I know, even as I said that, I thought, well, that's kind of a strange way to say it.
right.
Brenda: Be okay. So besides this, what would be your next favorite thing to talk about that does not have anything to do with substance use or anything like that? Just your, your fun.
Tonia: Hmm. Well, I mean, I, I live by the beach, so, you know, I love, I love the water. I love the beach and, and being with family, it's very, it seems like we go through these stages.
You know, when our children were small, we were always with the family. Now my children are older and now I'm always with the family. Again, they let me in. So that's a great thing. So
Brenda: that's a beautiful thing. Right? Cause you can't take that for granted.
Tonia: Exactly, exactly. And I've learned that, you know, and so I think, and they've learned.
You know, not to take it for granted. So it's been, you know, that is my favorite subject with my family. I love it. What beach do you live by? We live by we're on the, in New Jersey. Um, we're close to ocean city, New Jersey, ocean city, and Seattle. Nice. We're right off. We're right. About 10 minutes from both.
Okay. I got to
Brenda: go to Cape may once and it was so I, I kept driving and driving. Mm-hmm
Tonia: driving 20 miles from wow. 20 miles from
Brenda: Cape may gorgeous. Oh, it was such a beautiful place. So. Nice. Well, I would love to, before we dive into all of the stuff, I would love to just get, um, a little bit of a grounding on you and your family's story and, and how you came to be doing what you're doing.
So maybe you can take us through, I know it will have to be the cliff notes version because there's not possibly enough time to give the full version, but, um, tell us a little bit about your family and your background so that we can orient to where, where you are today.
Tonia: So we have only five. About 10, 10 years between the oldest and the youngest.
Um, we live in Southern New Jersey near the, near the beach, like I said, which is really nice and a very, it's a very rural community. So, um, everyone knows everyone and we have a, a business, a construction business, um, that I worked for. With my husband for many years. Um, until, uh, as my son got older, my oldest son got older and started having, struggling with some, uh, mental health issues and substance use.
I really started getting more involved in. In that area, trying to figure it out because I really didn't know, you know, what the resources were. And I, it, at that time it was 2008. There really wasn't much talk about substance use. Um, it was before everyone started talking about overdoses mm-hmm so I, you know, I really didn't know how to handle.
The issues with him said he was the oldest. So it was my, my first child and, and, you know, very difficult. Cause you don't know how to do anything. Yeah. Um, with your first, but he really was, you know, was affecting the whole family. The youngest was 10 years younger than him. He was probably 14, 15 when he
struggled in school way before that. Um, so that. It's really how it all came about is his struggle. And I was unable to find resources and I actually didn't find resources until I got in trouble. And then it was through the criminal justice system, basically, um, that gave, that sent me to somebody, to the state and the state found me someone, you know, that could actually get him into treatment, but I didn't even understand that, you know, so it took me.
Many years, um, even after I found some of those resources to really understand the issue and understand what was going on with him. Yeah. So that's kind of how I got into it. I mean, it was, I volunteered a lot and then eventually I was offered a position, you know, through my experience, uh, with the mental health association, um, in New Jersey, because I talked a lot about mental health as well as substance use.
So they offered me a position, um, to work with. and to educate them on substance use, because they really had no idea about anything with substance use. Right. And now I still work for them. And I work for, um, the national center for advocacy and recovery, which is just an advocacy organization for substance use.
So that's, you know, that's where I am right now, working with the two organizations that they are amazing organizations to work for because they really. Give me a lot of, um, I can really do pretty much whatever I want to do as far as you know, how to reach people and how to advocate. So it's been great.
I've gotten a lot of education, you know, through my positions, in those organizations. So it's, it's been, um, it's been really interesting and very rewarding.
Brenda: That sounds. Yeah, it sounds like you found kind of found your, um, your place and your niche, where you could, where you saw the need. Cuz I agree. Uh it's it's one of these things where you don't know that this world exists until you're in it and by the time you're in it, you're.
So freaked out and so tired and so scared and all of the things that it makes it really hard to get your bearings, um, was at least my experience, you know, and like what ends up. Um, and I had the same experience. I would, you know, try to find resources for my son. And they would always say, well, you know, has he been to jail?
Has he been in trouble with the law? And I would say no. And they would say, oh, We can't really help you then ,
Tonia: it's very sad. It really is sad. Which just no sense, no. Or you would go online and they'd want you to, you know, remortgage your house and send your child away somewhere to another state. Yeah. Um, and they just, you know, for $50,000.
Yeah. Um, you know, and at the time in 2008, when things were getting really bad with him, The economy was crashing. We were in construction. There was just no way that we could ever, you know, we were lucky to keep our house, let alone, right. Refinance our house and the idea that people were being told to refinance a home or to take out loans.
For treatment. And then I find out that there are ways to get people treatment where it doesn't cost you everything. You know, I have all these, I have friends in the advocacy world who I've spent thousands and thousands of dollars on treatment programs, um, over and over again. And I have to say whoever this person was, and my son remembered this man's name, which was pretty amazing to me, cuz it was in 2009 that this man talked to us from the state.
And he'd said to me, this is not gonna be the only time he's going to treatment. Unfortunately. Yeah, do not do not mortgage your house. Do not take a loan. There are, there are funds for him to get help and we will help you. That was amazing that they told me that. And it's something that I tell families all the time is, you know, even these most beautiful treatment programs that seem like they have everything, it may not fit your child.
It may not be the time for your child to get well. And you may end up having to do this over and over again. Right. Which is hard for people to understand, but it's, it's a chronic illness and it's not that easy. And there's so many underlying issues. You know, it's very possible that your child is not going to treatment one.
Yes, you know? Yes. So I don't, I tell people, someone will say to me, this place told me they don't take my insurance, but it's $30,000. I can find that money. I'm like, do not do it, do not do it. I mean, I'm adamant about people not going in debt because there are, there are ways that we can get people help.
Let's get somebody, a great insurance policy and, you know, and, and not have to put all that money out, but people are asking for cash. Oh yes. And that's just, that's a horrible thing for a family member. Who's scared. , you know, they're gonna do whatever they need to do to save their child, but this may not be what saves their child and yeah.
What do you do the next time?
Brenda: Right. Right. Well, I'm one of those people that did all of the things that you just said mm-hmm um, and it led to total, you know, financial devastation. So I'd be really curious to hear how do you, as a parent start to put the pieces of that puzzle together to say, um, you know, my child is 16 and they haven't been in trouble, but they're kind of not doing great, you know?
So it ranges from that all the way through to, you know, a young adult, maybe they're 22, 23, 27. Um, and they're, I know there's differences when they're over and under 18. Right. But how would a parent start to go about in their own state, figuring out where can I turn and who's available to help me.
Tonia: So I wanna say first that everybody is very quick to push everybody into substance use treatment.
And I'm not saying that we don't need that treatment, but I think we need to be aware that there are underlying issues that are often not. Treated. And until we treat the underlying issues, it's very hard to stabilize somebody and, and get them well. So, you know, I think for my son, um, he, he was ADHD, but we did not know that he, you know, he struggled with ADHD.
Well, we, we kind of knew, but we were told by other family members don't do you know, they just, everyone just wants to put them on medication. You know, and, and I understand that because medications can be very, you know, very difficult and, you know, can, can lead to somebody in another direction. But often if you don't treat ADHD one way or another, they end up, um, self-medicating, which is what my son did.
Right. You know, I mean, it was a very, it, it destroyed his self-esteem. Yeah. You know, he really. Struggled in school being considered, you know, well, people would say he's very intelligent. He's just not working to capacity, but nobody really understood it. Wasn't that easy for him to do that. And, and the more they put him down and said, he just wasn't doing what he needed to do.
The worse he felt about himself and the more angrier got, and the more he wanted to self-medicate. Right. Is that spiral? Um, yes, it's a spiral. And so I would say to family, first of all, you know, the biggest prevent. The biggest piece of prevention is really listening to your child. And if they're struggling in school, get them tested and advocate for them early, you know, before they start self-medicating because I had no idea.
And, you know, I just, I listened to people who, you know, with stigma. Really right. I wish I had, I wish I had done more earlier with that. I do remember somebody in school saying to a counselor saying to me, you know, children, when you don't address these issues, you know, the children often end up self-medicating.
I had no idea what she was talking about. So I wish what we would talk more and, and clearer to families, you know, early on. But I, I would start on the mental health piece for families to see like what's really going on and. And I think about this all the time. Um, I was just talking to, I was being interviewed and I was just think talking about this is that I really didn't hear my.
You know, he was telling me he was giving me all the clues and I really wasn't listening to what he was saying and, and figuring and, and understanding, um, how difficult things were for him. You know, I was so used to everybody saying, you know, the school saying, oh, he just doesn't wanna do the work. And, you know, heard all these negative things.
Right. But I never really heard what he was telling. He was giving me all the clues. And what
Brenda: was he telling you? I think that's a really important insight to give people, um, what are the things that he was either, you know, overtly or, or covertly telling you through his words or his actions?
Tonia: So he was telling me a lot about how difficult it was for him, for reading, for, you know, It, I just thought he just didn't wanna read, but he really was hard for him to concentrate, to read.
Mm. Which really made everything difficult in school. And it was hard for him to sit still, you know, he is very active and I. You know, that's a lot of children it's and he, he was great the first few years in school. And then the schools changed and all of a sudden there was less recess time. There was more, there was so much structure that like, there was no time for them to just release some of their energy where he had teachers before that were great.
Who really understood. The need for the children to, to get out and, and take some of that pressure off. Yeah. You know, he had, he had teachers in the beginning that actually taught every single student, like they had a, a learning difference and they would like find books that they knew that certain kids really.
Would be interested in, and that's how I got them to read. Mm. You know, because that's the thing about ADHD as well, is that if you're interested, you can get, keep your attention better. Right. So, you know, we had teachers that were, in fact, I was looking through some of his things and the, in second grade he had an amazing teacher and she really.
Really worked well with him. He wrote more in second grade than he wrote the entire time he was in school. Oh. He wrote all kinds of things and I'm thinking he even wrote, we laughed because he's very funny. And he, he won an essay about his dog, which we didn't even have a dog, which I thought was very funny.
Cause we won dog food. Love that. Like we don't have the talk. It's very funny, but you know, he, she was good at getting him to work, which was. But, you know, I didn't really, he was the first of five children, you know, so it was like, it was exhausting and we had a business and, you know, so he was kind of like a little on, not on his own, but you know, we were expected him to do things that he really wasn't able to do.
Right. School-wise he really struggled with it. Um, the other thing too is I didn't realize that he was being bullied in school. He had gotten a little bit heavier as he got older. He hit it well, and honestly his whole life, he hit it. Well, you know, when somebody, when something was going on with him, he kept, you know, he would laugh about it.
It was always a joke, but I, I started to find, find out that it really wasn't funny to him. And it was very upsetting and he laughed at himself before others could make fun of him. Yeah. And that really affected his self esteem. And, and that was forever, you know, it never really changed it. It affected him so much when he was young and he just never got past.
So there were things, you know, and I just didn't even realize, because I didn't hear, I just thought, well, these are just things that happened, you know, like
Brenda: just right. Things that happened to kids. And yeah, I'm just so grateful for that insight, because here's why I think it's really important that you said to start with thinking about mental health.
Is that when my son started getting into it, It, if you would've said, oh, Brenda, your son has some mental health challenges. I would've looked at you crossed, like, what are you talking about? He's just using drugs. Mm-hmm, like, you know, if you're not educated about what this is, it might not occur to you to think.
Through the lens of mental health or, you know, which could be caused by the bullying, the ADHD mm-hmm dyslexia, what any of these things that are so impactful to them as they're growing and trying to make friends. So I'm really glad that you said that because I think our first initial reaction is to go to the substance use, get that fixed, get them off of weed or whatever they're doing, and then everything is gonna be fine.
and, and I know you and I are both craft, um, you know, advocates and proponents of the craft approach, which says there is a reason why they're doing this. This is solving a problem for them. It is not
Tonia: behaviors. Make sense. Yes. Behaviors
Brenda: make sense. So thank you for highlighting that. I think that's really
Tonia: important.
Yeah. I think that, um, you know, I say to families and I do, I do a lot of work with families till I continue, but usually. You know, people refer families to talk to me when it's everything's outta control. So I always get families when they're, you know, things are chaotic. um, and you know, we're kind of talking them down a little bit and, and talking about this, you know, this everybody's like, I, yeah, they gotta go to treatment.
I'm like, let's, let's step back a second. Like of course we want everyone, you know, harm reduction is huge, so we wanna make sure someone's safe. But the thing is like, have you talk, have you been able to communicate and really talk to them? Because I think we talk at people who struggle instead of talking, you know, letting them tell.
How they're feeling. And I think that's the beauty of craft and I, you know, it's UN unfortunately I didn't mention the hi. I lost my son last year, after a long struggle. But I have to say that the, the amazing thing about his life is that I, I got the opportunity to have a relationship with him even during the struggle.
And it was because of the training in craft and the understanding that how important it was to keep those lines of communication open. And through him, actually, the last 10 years of my advocacy work, um, he was my. I learned more from him than from anyone, because he was so willing to open up and tell me things and you know, it may have been difficult for him to get well, but it was, he was very open about the barriers and, you know, What, what made it difficult for him and what others were thinking and how they were feeling?
He, you know, he told me all of it. And then when he passed away, I also found out that not only was, you know, he working, you know, telling me all these things, but he was also telling his, you know, friends were sending me messages and saying, he gave me your number to give to my parents. You know, he, he gave me your number to talk about treatment.
It was pretty, it. I just what a gift, you know? Yeah. What a gift.
Brenda: That's amazing to have to have that relationship. And I, I think we can't underscore how important that is because the alternative is. You shut them out, you detach and distance and let them hit rock bottom mm-hmm and you don't have that relationship.
And I just think, you know, my heart breaks for you to think that you lost him, um, at, at any with, with any circumstances. But to know that you had a relationship with him because you are, you're still living and you have that, those memories that you had with him even when he was using. And I think that's so important for people to recognize is just because they're using substances.
Doesn't mean you can't. Still love, love on them and love them right. And have a relationship. Um, it's an unhealthy behavior for sure. But that's what it is. It's an unhealthy coping mechanism as is overeating as is overworking, you know, and this one is so much more pronounced and dangerous, but it is an unhealthy coping mechanism at the foundation, I believe.
And, um, and you can still have a relationship with
Tonia: people like that. Right. And I, you know, it's funny because what I've learned from him, you know, is, is helped me to have relationships with, with others, you know, who use chaotically and who struggle with their families and trying to keep those families connected, but also.
I found that they are very willing to be open, you know, very open with me and tell me things that could help, you know, help me to help them get into the right treatment. Mm-hmm , you know, if they're looking for treatment. Yeah. And you know, I remember talking to, and this happened so many times actually, where I'll be talking to accounts for who will say.
You know, say this person, you know, they really need some trauma treatment. Like they really need some extra, you know, something different and they say, we don't know anything about the trauma. Oh, how do we not know about the trauma? I'm like, cause you don't ask. Right? I mean, like it's not, it's not asking, Hey, do you have trauma?
It's saying what happened to you? Yeah. You know what what's going on with you. People want, they, people who struggle use substances wanna be. And they always feel like they're not. Yeah. And so when somebody's open to, to listening to them and not just talking at them, they give you every clue you need to get them help.
Brenda: Mm. I, I just think of the parents who are listening and in their minds, they're going, but how do I get them to talk? like my kid doesn't talk to me. Right. Or my kid doesn't live with me. You know, they live in another state or they're 15 and they're just shut down. Um, What are your thoughts on some I'm sure you've got some tips and tricks on that.
thanks. How can you start? Cause you you're right. If you say what's your trauma, that's probably not gonna get the
Tonia: response. It can be very traumatizing too. it's not, not a good way to treat trauma. You know, I think that the. I say, cuz we do have like, um, we have a support group we were doing with the mental health association that was virtual.
And we had some people that had children who lived in other states and they always, you know, every time they talk to them, they're like, how many meetings have you gone to? You know? Cause you know, I'm not sure I trust them because I'm not sure about meetings. I'm like, listen, stop talking about meetings.
I'm like, you know, it's, let's start talking about the things you would normally talk about. We spend so much time focused on what they're doing and if they're doing it right. And if they're, you know, like we're always looking for signs that something bad is gonna happen, that we miss all the good things.
Mm. And, you know, I'll sometimes in the group, I would say to everyone, tell me something good. About your child. Yeah. And some people couldn't, you know, they were so caught up in the chaos that they forgot all the, the really good things about their child. Like giving me a happy memory. What did you talk about before.
And I think, I just think we spend so much time focusing or they know, even if we're hiding it, like, even if we're trying to be tricky about it, they know we're saying basically, are you using basically they know that's what you're saying. That's the subtext. Yeah, exactly. So, I mean, you having a conversation with, with your child that has nothing to do with substances is a good start, you know, Have you gone anywhere lately?
Any more fun? Have you done anything fun lately? How's work. How's you know, something other than, Hey, are you using, are you going meetings? You know, in this, you know, putting, you know, I have family members who have children are in recovery three or four years, and they're still saying, I'm concerned, they're not going to meetings.
I'm like, oh my gosh. Wow. Like focus on the focus on how wonderful life is for them right now. Like it's. I think people just, we have trauma basically, right? Yeah. So we just keep going back a hundred percent. Um, yeah. Yeah. We all have trauma. We have PTSD. Yes. Oh, PTSD. Big time. I mean, I just don't know why they don't just diagnosis us all.
right, exactly. It's just
Brenda: a blanket diagnosis. exactly. Um, I, I got us a little bit off track, um, and I wanna go back cause I think you have some unique knowledge in this space of how. a parent would start to go about finding some resources through their state, right. Um, to like, what are the departments or what are the groups or the people that they could start to tap into?
As an alternative to going to a private type of treatment or rehab.
Tonia: Right. So, um, and you know, every state's a little bit different. Well, one thing you could do too, is to go to SAMSA, um, the website, the, the federal website. and there's a lot of information there that leads you to each state has different departments that you can go to and, and you can get all that information from SAMSA.
Also the department of human services in most states handle substance use treatment. I, like I said, I really think mental health is a huge part of it too. I think that I'm looking for. Um, trying to search for, like, if it's children, it's a little bit different and we like new Jersey's has a really decent system actually.
Now that I've figured out how to use it, you know, in the beginning, if there was well, it's also different things have changed, so it's a little bit better, but, you know, department of children and family services has. Counseling services for children who struggle with mental health and substance use. So you can go to the department of children and family services, um, and say, you need your child needs services.
You could go to the department of human services websites. Usually when our state division of mental health and addiction services has a list of treatment programs. Um, we have, we have Medicaid expansion, so we have a capability. You know, people to get onto Medicaid very easily. Um, so if someone doesn't have private insurance, a lot of times they can get onto Medicaid programs, which is, which is helpful, but not all states have that.
I mean, and I think that's one of the things too, is, you know, if you go to some of these. Departments, you can see if there's other funding sources in our state. We have a call line, um, that you can call called the it's called the IME. Um, we have reached New Jersey, which is like a, you call there and they send you to different organizations depending on what kind of insurance you have, cuz that's really important.
You know what coverage you have. Right. Um, also, if you do have private insurance, I would call your insurance company or look at their website and see what's covered. Mm-hmm mental health is mental health is difficult. Behavioral health is difficult to find. I do find that substance use treatment is actually easier than mental health treatment at this point.
Yeah. Because there's so much more funding, you know, because of the opioid crisis. Yeah. Um, lot of the states have more funding. But there are, there are state organizations that are, that's what they do. Sams is a good one though. It's S a M H S a um, yes. Yeah, for
Brenda: sure. And I'll put links to this. Yeah. I'll put link to that in the, in the show notes,
Tonia: but I think, I think there are more call lines and, and more states than there used to be like that where you can call just for services like mental health divisions are, are probably a good start.
To go online. If people are pressuring you for, to come up with cash, call the division of mental health addiction services or mental health, um, in your state first. Yeah. Before you start talking about putting money out, because it is very expensive. Oh, yes. .
Brenda: Yeah, for sure. And there, so it's really state by state, which is, um, confusing obviously, but right.
Uh, basically, and I, and I tell people this, um, because I know if you're in the thick of it, you might not have the brain space to navigate state websites cuz they can be, um, very overwhelming, but mm-hmm um, and I don't know if you. Found this, or, and I didn't do this, but I always try to say, find yourself an advocate who can do that research for you?
Like find somebody within your network of your family or friends. Who's that really like when they go on vacation, they research, you know, 15,000 hotels and flights and all that, find that person and ha and put them on it and say, I need you to find this for me. And some people thrive in that. Right. They love it.
And if they're not in the chaos, They can probably do a better job because I think it's really crazy that there are these services out there and parents can't find them.
Tonia: I think also if you find organizations, you know, there are family support organizations that are national, and sometimes they can send you, you know, in the right direction as well.
Mm-hmm , um, getting support for yourself is. Yes, just so important yet. We are under so much, first of all, everything's based on fear, right? We're so scared. And we have so much chaos in our lives that sometimes that's hard, you know, to get help for yourself. I actually, you know, I had a difficult time with some of the, you know, I went to get help for myself that no.
Everyone wanted to worry about me, but nobody wanted to worry about my child and my child could have died. And so that was really difficult for me. So that's why craft was a really good fit for me because. They cared about my child too. Mm-hmm , you know, that it wasn't just about me. It was about us healing as a family.
And that's important. So if you can find groups like that, you know, that are craft minded groups that care about your child as well. A lot of them have a lot of resources too, right. You know, in their, in your estate. So, I mean, it is really difficult. When you're doing, looking at something like for every state, because it's so different from state to state.
Right. But I do think when you go to a family group, like that's space in craft, or, you know, something like that, where it involves family healing. That they will also find resources for your child. Yes. You know, or give you resources.
Brenda: Yes. And you can always call and again, I'll put this in the show notes.
You can always call the partnership to end addiction. Um, they have a helpline and they are phenomenal to, to actually take time with you. You'll set an appointment. So it's not a, it's not a crisis line. Um, right. And, and I know we're both huge. Friends and fans of the partnership, because they don't have anything to sell you.
They can't right. They can't sell you anything. There is nothing there to sell. They give everything away for free, right. And English and Spanish. And it's amazing. So I'll put those resources in the show notes as well. Cuz that's a good place to start between that and SAMSA. I think that's a really, really good starting point to get to the places that you need to go.
Do
Tonia: you think? Yeah. And I think also their. Full of information. Yes. You know, to really help you, um, understand substance use a little bit too. Um, I, you know, they put up the newest, you know, anything that's coming out the newest science, um, and connect you, you know, all over to, to federally or even national information about substance use, where you can get educated because I.
That was the, the thing that was lacking most for me in the beginning is I had no education about this. Right. Uh, in fact, I'd never even heard about, I didn't even hear of anyone talk about recovery. When my son got involved, like we've never had anything, like, you know, this issue in our family. So I had nothing to look at and nothing to, to go by.
And I actually went to Samsung on the website, a friend and I, her son was struggling or her daughter was struggling. So we were searching things and we found Samsung that way, just searching. And we found this, this man who wrote a book who's in New Jersey and it was about a book about recovery. And we're like, Okay.
So, wow. We actually, yeah, we actually called him I love it. And he said, okay, I'm gonna read my book and then we're gonna talk. So I read his book and I was like, wow, like I learned so much about recovery. And, and I was like, I've never even heard about recovery before, because we're, we are so like, oh, we hear about his death.
Yeah. You know? And so it was so scary all the time because it was like, oh, I mean, I mean, honestly, when someone told me my son was using heroin, I'm like, What, what is going on, you know, right. Like this is, this is nothing that I know anything about. You know, someone never knew about recovery and never knew about heroin.
I knew through anything and he, this man, I actually became a recovery coach under him after I. Been involved with them for a while, because I was like, this is amazing. This whole recovery. Thing's amazing. Recovery's amazing.
Brenda: Um, yeah. Do you know the name of the book? Do you remember the name of the book
Tonia: I'd love to share?
Yeah, it's full. Yep. Yeah. It's called full recovery. Okay. Um, it's Brian McAllister is the, the author. Um, it. It just changed everything for me. Cuz all of a sudden I had hope because there's so much out there to say there is no hope. Yeah. And this man just gave me all this hope. And then I, there was another organization called parent to parent it's in, based in New Jersey and it was four, four women.
Um, three had lost her children who started a. To support families and help them get their loved ones in treatment. So that's kind of how I started. Like, I started learning about the family piece before I found the partnership. And, um, actually I was trained as a, a coach in the partnership. And when I was trained on the author of, of the book beyond addiction was one of my trainers.
And I said to him, you know, if these women had doctor's degrees, they could have written this book and it was all like, it was really crapped. I mean, it was just compassion. It was all just compassion and love. You know, I, I think the first time I talked to these women, I talked, I cried for two hours, which is what people do with me now.
because the relief of having somebody who cares about your child, as much as they care about you. Is just, it's like, oh my gosh, finally, you know, it's not like, Hey yeah, self care is important. It is important. But my child's life is, you know, we have to talk about my child too. Yes.
Brenda: And yes. And yes. Yeah.
It's not either or for sure. Right. Right. What are their, um, are there any. Pieces of legislature that you're specifically, or, or most importantly focused on or would like to see, come about. I know there's a lot of money coming through from, well, hopefully right from
Tonia: the opioid settlement settlements. Yes.
Brenda: Yeah. Um, anything in particular that you wanna highlight that you think parents should be aware of? Cuz I think a lot of times we want to do something and we just don't know. To do or what to focus
Tonia: on? Well, one of the things that's interesting is that family member and this comes a lot of this comes from the recovery community is, is that, you know, medications are bad and, uh, medications are saving people's lives that have an opioid use disorder.
And, you know, uh, things like methadone and Suboxone, we have a lot of family members. Who've been told that that's not recovery if somebody's on that medication. Yeah. And so I learned a lot, um, from doctors actually, and, and I, I rely on doctors more than anybody right now, which I know some people may feel funny because of the opioid issue, but honestly, these, these doctors that I work with are compassionate, um, and kind, and it's about it's about medical issue.
Yeah. So the mainstream addiction act is a bill that it just passed. It passed the, um, house, and now it's going to the Senate and people can write to the Senate about the mainstream addiction act. And what it does is, um, so buprenorphine, which is Suboxone is buprenorphine. Buprenorphine is the only drug that we have that you ha that requires a special license and training.
To be able to prescribe. So it's a life saving. , it's a life saving medication for an opioid use disorder and not every doctor can prescribe it, which is just unbelievable. Right. And very discriminatory, really. So, and, and many doctors are afraid to be prescribers because they're afraid the D it's it, it's a red light, you know, you know, for the DEA is gonna come in and, and watch them more careful.
So that is, um, I did actually did an op-ed that was used for that bill. Right, right. After my son passed away actually. And because I felt it was so important that this medication was treated like any other medication and they could be prescribed for somebody who needed it. Also, you know, that we wanted to educate families and this medication is saving.
It is, you know, someone is in recovery, they're on these medications. If you have high blood pressure and you are on medication for high blood pressure, no one would be telling you to get off your pre your medication. Right. Um, so I think it's a choice between a doctor and a patient. And it's not, it's not even really a choice between a treatment provider because they're not doctors.
It is a doctor and a patient. Who needs to decide if this is a medication for them and you know, for thousands and thousands of people, this medication is saving their lives. I was just
Brenda: gonna ask. So right now, if somebody wants to get on buprenorphine, they can't just go to, I mean, they're doctor. Okay. So they have to find a doctor who's specifically allowed to.
Tonia: Prescribes aside, right? So they have to have what they call the X waiver. Now they did make it a little bit easier that doctors could just apply for this X waiver without this other piece. That was a very long process. So they did that. PA doctors can prescribe up to eight, um, 30 patients with just, you know, an application for the X waiver.
But the thing is, it's another thing it's just an ex, like why are we having a waiver to prescribe medications for an opiate use disorder? You know? And. and why are we still, I mean, I'm, I've been fighting so much. I mean, we have court programs are refusing to allow people on this medication, which is just unbelievable.
Mm-hmm um, and, and actually department of justice is going after them for, um, violations of the American disabilities act for denying the medications for their illness. We have, yeah. I mean, I'm fighting right now, nursing homes, not allowing people to be on Suboxone. So they're on Suboxone and they go to a nursing home and they, they, they don't give them their medication, which is horrific.
And you know, what I'm hoping, and I think is gonna happen is it's gonna be another violation. So I think people talking about that is important and understanding that they can get behind some of these things. There's also, um, a letter that's going out to the DEA. There are pharmacies that cut off. Um, well, there's distributors for pharmacies that are cutting off the supply of, of buprenorphine at a certain level because buprenorphine isn't opioid and it's considered, it's put into a group of opioids that are being allowed to be prescribed.
So if a pharmacy is in a city and they have a lot of people prescribing op um, opioids and Suboxone, Suboxone gets cut. so now life saving medications are not available in certain pharmacies. Wow. Because they're, they're cut off. So that's something that we're fighting. So that's very important. And the, you know, the other thing that I'm really, and this really affected my son a lot was the criminal justice system and decriminalizing substances, which I know is scary to some people because they believe that the criminal justice system is how they got somebody.
Well, But, um, it is, it is not the way we get people well, it's to put them in jail, um, and to give them a felony charges that are, you know, lifelong barriers. To all kinds of things, including insurance and jobs. So, you know, decriminalizing is a big issue for me and I know New Jersey we're working hard on that.
It's, it's, it's a difficult issue for people to understand when we have spent all these years in this drug war, we're saying that people who use substances are bad. And we need to, you know, we need to stop them by punishing them when we know that a substance use disorder. I mean, part of the definition is that, you know, UN unable to stop using even with negative consequences.
Right. So how does it make sense? Right, right, right.
Brenda: Yeah. And the, the criminal, I was gonna say, when you were talking about. People going into nursing homes and they won't let them stay on the Suboxone. It's the same thing with prison in jail, right? They'll, they'll be on Suboxone and then get to jail and all of a sudden have to come off of it.
Um, and there is no weening when you get into jail, it is right. You are cut off, which means you go into massive withdrawal. Um, and that's where, and I don't know your son's specific story, but I do know that he spent quite a long time in jail. And then when they are released, there's no. You know, transition onto Suboxone or something that could keep him safe.
Right. And so it's just one of those big landmines that so many people. Um, when they're trying so hard to be healthier. And so I think that that's really important.
Tonia: I think new Jersey's come a long way. Um, our prison system, I've just listened to a, a re a presentation from, um, the psychiatrist. In that oversees the prisons and they put all these programs in and they're, you know, they're actually allowing people to be on Suboxone and methadone and they're making sure that they have peers when they're leaving and they're connected to services and they get medication.
So we're coming a long way in New Jersey. Uh, so, but new Jersey's kind of progressive. Yeah. As far as, I mean, it's, we still have a long way to go trust me, but we we're. When I listen to other states and things that are going on, we are very progressive. Um, even in the county jails, if you come in on Suboxone, you have to stay on Suboxone.
They can't take you off. Now, if you come in and you're, you know, you're going through, you know, withdrawal symptoms, they will. Now we have programs where they'll start Suboxone and then just, you know, they'll. Basically keep you from being uncomfortable and, but they won't let you stay on it because of the cost, I guess they say, I'm not sure.
Right. Right. But you know, we've come a long way and there are, there are plenty ways to do it. It's just a matter of, are you in a state that, that thinks that that's important? Right. You know, and, and so if your state isn't, they're not doing those kind of things, then you can fight for those things. Yes.
And I mean, as somebody from the state just said something to me the other day about, well, you are the mouthpiece. And I was like, Hmm, was that good or bad? I'm not sure. Like, was that a compliment I'm but you know, you're, we aren't our, our child's advocates and. It's okay. Like we've been made to think like a lot of families are told that we have to be quiet and that we're, you know, that I hate the word enabling, um, by supporting somebody, but really if our child had any other illness, of course we'd be fighting for them.
Yes. And, you know, I, once I started understanding what substance use was really about and the mental health issues, especially that my son really wasn't able well, even if he was well enough to, to voice how he felt, no one was listen. And so I give the voice, you know, I give him a voice and I give others their, you know, I, I fight.
So they have a voice because they don't. Right. You know? And, um, so I think it's being an advocate is just, you know, so important and it's, it's a little healing as well, so to be able to do something,
Brenda: yeah, I was gonna ask that, cuz I, I can imagine the, the pain and. Just the, the sense of loss. I can't wrap my head around.
So I was gonna ask you that is it, is this work healing to you? Um, and how do you from kind of a self care standpoint, how do you balance the work that you do with the loss that you've experienced?
Tonia: So it, it is healing and it's hard sometimes too. Yeah. Sometimes it's really hard because sometimes, you know, we talk about PTSD and, you know, sometimes that gets to you a little bit.
I have a granddaughter and that makes, you know, she's almost two. And I can't imagine going through all this stuff without her, because she keeps me centered a little bit where I can't put everything into this. And so I, it is kind of my self care. Yeah. Because she makes sure I take care of. or that I do something outside.
If I take care of her, I play with her so, yeah. But, but I it's something outside of, you know, just being wrapped up and, and helping people and, you know, fighting for things because it, it does get a little overwhelming sometimes. Oh, I can imagine, you know, and I, you know, I kind of allow myself to be you it's.
I was just saying to someone that in two weeks before my son's one year anniversary, which was just last week, I, you know, I had this, I was just overwhelmed in this feeling of, I haven't done enough and you know, all like this, I had this thing in my head. I had to do something huge. And it's funny, cuz I did a lot in a year.
I did, there were a lot of things I did. But I couldn't see it because I was just, I needed something to make it, you know, like, okay. I, I'm making sure he's known. I'm making sure that he didn't die in vain. And so. I was, I was a wreck for two weeks, honestly. And then, you know, I, I talked to a friend of mine who said, you know, Hey, like enough, like you've done plenty.
And you know, this is all good stuff and you need to just walk away for a little bit, you know? And so I took a little bit, you know, a couple days and just didn't do anything. And I realized, you know, I, sometimes that self care is helps. You kind of get ground. Right. Um, I needed that. I definitely needed that.
Brenda: Yeah. Well, we need, we need you to take care of yourself so that you can continue to do all the work that you do. So in a way, your self-care really is serving parents too. And I try to say the same thing to the families that I work with is. You taking care of yourself is actually you taking care of your child.
Um, it's not the first, it's not the most obvious way to see it, but it is so, you know,
Tonia: it's well, if we're trying to keep them, that's chaos that they're going through. If we're trying to calm that down, how can we calm them down? Yeah. If we're in the same state. Exactly. And, and, you know, in the beginning, especially I found myself in the same state as my son, you know?
Yeah, yeah. Chasing him around. Like standing in the middle of the driveway, catching them, driving away. I mean, I never slept, you know, and I think it's all that chaos that all families go through. And sometimes, you know, when I'll talk to a family, they're like, this is what's going on. Like, oh yeah, this is, I actually wanted to write a book about all the craziness.
Oh, you a hundred percent should , but I didn't wanna just be me. I wanted the families all put into the book. Yeah. Because we all have done, like, I had one family member who said, I went to a pawn shop with a bat cause he sold my, and I was like, you're my hero. Yes.
Brenda: You, you literally can't make it up. The stuff that we do.
Tonia: No, no following drug dealers. I'm like, oh my gosh, the things we did yes, but we laugh now. But, um, and you know, that's the other thing too, is we need to find the humor and things because yes. Even with my son, we'll talk, now he would talk about some of the things that he do. And, um, you know, and we both start laughing and it doesn't seem like something you would laugh about, but you know, like finding that humor sometimes and laughing at yourself, Yeah.
And you know, it, it helped, it definitely helped.
Brenda: It does. Is there a kind of a closing piece of wisdom or word of encouragement that you would give if there's a mom or dad listening right now, who's in the crazy, they're the ones driving, you know, around looking for dealers or in the driveway, in the pawn shop.
What would be your, your thoughts for them?
Tonia: Well, I'd say, first of all, you're not alone. And to find your people right. Find those people that, that can support you and they that understand, and that love your son too, you know, and, and really understand what you're going through. And don't, um, judge, you.