coaching episode: tuning into your values can boost confidence & lower anxiety when your boundaries and patience are challenged
Host: Brenda Zane, brenda@brendazane.com
Instagram: @the.stream.community
Guest: Ellen, mom in The Stream Community
The Stream Community: The Stream is the online space that gives moms connection, hope and healing when their child struggles with substance misuse, addiction, and mental health challenges.
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About this episode:
If you’ve been around here long, you know that nurturing the connection in your relationship with your son or daughter is the top priority as we support a path to recovery. But trying to stay level-headed when our kids are lying, pushing boundaries, or just deflecting and distracting from the issue at hand is challenging.
This week on the podcast, I have the honor of sitting down with Ellen, a mom and member of The Stream Community. Her son is about to turn eighteen, has relapsed in the last few months, and has significant mental health challenges. Ellen shares her frustration with feeling a lack of respect from her son, and is lacking confidence in her decision-making. Together, we explore how the exercise of beginning with a value can drive confidence and peace into the way she communicates and holds boundaries with her son in the future. There’s so much to relate to here, and I know you’ll find encouragement as you listen.
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[00:00:00] Brenda: Hello and welcome. You're listening to Hope Stream. If you parenting a teen or young adult child who's experimenting with drugs and alcohol, or who's in active addiction, Treatment or early recovery, you're in the right place. I am Brenda, Zane, your host, and a mom who has been there. So just take a minute to exhale, know you're a good company and just know this is your place to soak up, support, understanding, and get some really great information.
[00:00:32] You can learn more about me and the work I do to serve parents like you@brendazane.com. I'm so glad you're here today to listen to this coaching episode. I know you had options of other things to do at this time, and so I wanna acknowledge your commitment to this process. Acknowledge the effort you're putting in to making changes in your family and the time and the energy that that takes.
[00:00:58] It can start to feel sometimes like you are the one doing all the work, and at times you may be the one who's doing the most work. And when you consider what you're doing the work for, it does make it all. That doesn't mean it's always fun or that you are enjoying the work that you're doing because it can feel exhausting and overwhelming.
[00:01:21] So I hope you'll have some self-compassion and truly think about the fact that you are doing something you never thought you would be doing, facing situations you could never imagine you'd be facing. And even so, your success rate to date has been 100% for getting. Maybe not without some bumps along the way, but you are here now, so that is evidence that you're doing something right and that might be a message you need to hear when it feels like you're doing a lot of things wrong.
[00:01:56] I have been there and I know how that feels. And today you're gonna hear from Ellen who's been on the mental health and substance misused roller coaster for a while with her son, who is soon to be 18. They've had really rough times. They've had some better times. Covid played a big part in this, and at the moment they're still bumping their way through it all.
[00:02:22] Boundaries are a challenge as they are for many people, and we talk about how Ellen can apply the confidence that she feels around boundaries in other areas of her life to the ones that she really wants to hold with her son. As always, our coaching sessions are real and raw, and I cannot say thank you enough to these courageous moms who are willing to share their family situations with me and ultimately with you, so we can all work on healing together.
[00:02:52] So grab a mug of something delicious. Start on your commute, grab your dog, or
[00:02:58] Ellen: whatever you do while
[00:02:59] Brenda: you're listening, and let's do this. See you on the other.
[00:03:07] A thank you for joining me today for coaching episode. You are a frequent flyer in our, um, craft classes in the stream, which is awesome that you spend a lot of time learning and you're highly valued member in the community. So I'm really thrilled to talk with you today. Just find out what's going on, what kind of things you wanna work on.
[00:03:29] So thanks for joining.
[00:03:32] Ellen: Thank you for the
[00:03:33] Brenda: opportunity. Yes. Well, why don't you tell us just whatever you're comfortable with as far as some background on kind of where your family's been, uh, what's going on now, and then after that we'll dive into some things that you are thinking about working on. How's that sound?
[00:03:50] Ellen: That sounds good. Yeah, so, um, I have a 17 year old son who will be 18 on Saturday and that has been a little bit scary. I think I'm adjusting to the idea a little more now, but, um, definitely that has been something that has been on my mind. Um, he. He had always done really well in school, mostly a's a few B's here and there, and was a really good.
[00:04:30] Runner, student athlete team, a state medalist in cross country and, and then, um, was a, a freshman when Covid hit. And it's hard of course to know how much that affected things. Because we don't know what it would've been like without it. But it didn't help, I think, and for any of us who, who had kids probably at any age, it's changed things, so no doubt.
[00:04:59] But, um, I guess I first started noticing. Things were not going as well. Something was different in May of 20. So, you know, shortly after everything shut down, um, with Covid and lots of stress that I didn't really know what was going on, um, or how much was going on. And then I first became aware that he was using substances in um, September of 21.
[00:05:36] And I think it speaks probably to how naive my husband and I were, because we were never involved in any of that. And, um, don't drink and, you know, we, we were just, Pretty naive to it. But, um, that's when I first became aware and we, we went to some, I got him connected with a counselor. I got myself into some counseling and things just, uh, didn't go well at all.
[00:06:10] Um, that, that semester, uh, fall 21 things didn't go well at all. And we decided to change schools in for Spring 22 from the small town school district where he had been his whole lives. And we also, um, January I think is when I joined the stream. We honestly kind of got both of us, for lack of a better word, ghosted in our counseling situations.
[00:06:44] Um, at the end of the year. Ended up probably being a good thing in a lot of ways because that's what led me to do some research on my own, which is how I found the stream, how I learned about craft, how I got connected with partnership to in addiction and had a parent coach through there, um, and found a more appropriate counselor for my son.
[00:07:10] So bring. 22 went pretty well overall. Um, actually things did go pretty well for a while. He, he, um, the same day that I first made the connection with his new counselor, came home to talk to him and he just, Started talking and told me he wanted to stop using and he, you know, we worked things out. He got, he went back to A's and B's, uh, for that semester, and we had almost five months of, you know, not bliss by any means.
[00:07:47] We still had some depression and anxiety issues and that, but he wasn't using and he was doing better. And then the summer, late June, he relapsed. Has been struggling in a lot of different ways. So most recently he has been diagnosed or probably got a probable diagnosis of bipolar disorder. Um, he's, he stopped taking all his meds this summer and he, and, um, those were depression and anxiety meds, they stopped taking those on his own.
[00:08:21] Not recommended, but, um, Then recently he was assessed for probable adhd, which he never had to, you know, that was never indicated. We never were aware of that before. So he's on some meds for that. And then just for a week, a week and a couple days, I guess, he's been on. Meds for bipolar disorder and found out that he has at least some of the time, been spitting out his meds.
[00:08:54] We did have, um, conversation at the therapist's office on Tuesday and he agreed to. Take them at least till we see the psychiatrist again, um, in October and, um, late, mid to late October. See how they're working for him and school is not going well, but. Um, he, the school that we switched to is, is the online.
[00:09:27] Um, and that did work well in the spring. Again, not, not working well now, but he's, he's only got two classes and, um, he has to put in every so often at least a six hour day to meet graduation requirements. He's a senior. . And so two classes that he has to have to graduate. One's a repeat from fall 21 that he failed, um, anyway, where the grades are not good, the teachers are going above and beyond to try to help us.
[00:09:56] I and I did, um, request assessment for an I E P and was told that he doesn't meet the requirements. For that, but, um, a slight win, or maybe it's not that flight because it was quite an accomplishment. But, um, got, I emailed his teachers this morning to find out if he actually completed the six hour day yesterday.
[00:10:20] I worked from home so that. I can improve the chances of that because it was supposed to happen Monday. It didn't happen, and he missed all of his extended deadlines that will now be permanent zeros, which they extended them greatly. Um, but he, he did work on the computer, did not time it even though I kept asking.
[00:10:40] Please time, please Time anyway. He did get six hours in yesterday, so hey, that was a relief. And you know, even the teacher who confirmed it for me said one less thing to worry about. And so yeah. Said yes, yay. For one less thing.
[00:10:59] Brenda: Yes, the small winds right?
[00:11:02] Ellen: Small. Yes. I guess we left out an I. Piece is he has wrecked his car twice while, um, driving under the influence of marijuana.
[00:11:14] Um, I believe that's been the substance both times. That's his substance of choice. And he goes, as his therapist says, a thousand percent when, when he jumps back on that, it's. You know, a little here or there. It's a lot. And, um, so anyway, he's out of his car. He was out of his car for almost, um, well, let's see, five and a half months because of a smaller wreck in December of last year.
[00:11:49] and, um, had, you know, at that time we told him, you know, you need to earn the money to back and, or get it fixed. And so he did. It was a lot less than this one, this one, this last one, which happened August 3rd. It's pretty scary. Thankfully, nobody else was involved that he had. Not come home for a day and a half.
[00:12:12] And then when he did decide to head home at 12:52 AM he had a wreck and totally shattered his sun earth with glass that poured down on him. Um, among other things still drivable. Nobody saw it apparently. So he drove seven miles and then sent a text saying a deer hit his car. And, um, And that wasn't what happened, but you know, had to have a story.
[00:12:41] So, so, um, one of my big frustrations, disappointments, and worries among many is. He does lie so much, uh, makes so many promises. We, we tried giving him some grace because I think he had been sober for two to three weeks, within the last months or so. And so we tried giving him some grace, let him borrow our dad's vehicle and, um, At least one time.
[00:13:14] Didn't bring it home overnight. And then a couple other times, you know, went places that we knew were places where he was likely buying and using. And, um, he, we tried one more time. Okay. And made the deal, okay. If you wanna take it to the gym, this is your chance to. Prove that we can trust you. You go directly to the gym, you come directly home.
[00:13:43] 24 mile round trip. Well, we had said that day before. Oh, and the key part is that doesn't happen. You will never borrow it again. And, um, he, he said the day before, it has been check mileage before he left and thought he was missing six miles, but decided, okay, we'll give him the grace. So the next day he took a picture.
[00:14:09] We did bring it back after four hours. He had driven 90 miles. And so out of the truck is starting to ask again. But, um, anyway, that's kind of where we are. That's the moment.
[00:14:26] Brenda: That's, yeah. That's a lot. That's a lot. What I, what I hear is, , you're, you're sort of watching this and there's the ebbs and the flows of that.
[00:14:41] Okay, we're seeing some progress, and then kind of that wave crashes over. It's like, oh, no, no, no, no, no. And then the tide kind of goes out and things get a little better, and then it crashes again. So you've been really on this. this, um, constant wave of in and out and up and down. And I imagine it's, it's hard because you're not able to predict what, what it's gonna be at any given day or week.
[00:15:13] You're getting your hearing lies from him. You're trying to give him the benefit of some of the, the good things that he's done, and it sounds like there are some good things, right? So it's not like my kid is doing all the bad things a hundred percent of the time. He's mixing in some of these really good things as well with like going to school for at least one day doing, you know, doing that.
[00:15:38] So what I, what I could see with that is that for you, it just adds this level. Unknown and complete unpredictability of what's gonna happen today, right? Like, what's gonna be the issue of the day? And that's a really difficult way to live your life as a, as a mom, as a woman, as a, a wor an employee, as a, you know, all the things that you are to so many different people when you're living in that state of unpredictability, it's hard to.
[00:16:14] Kind of think straight. It's hard to be fully present with people. It's just really, really difficult. So I think that's important to just recognize is you are not in a normal state of, you know, existence basically. Right? Mm-hmm. at the moment. How does that show up for you? Kind of that level of unpredictability?
[00:16:41] Well,
[00:16:42] Ellen: I mean, what you just said is, is definitely true and it, it feels like much of the time, at least a low level of anxiety. Sometimes it's more than a low level, but a lot of the time, you know, I've just gotten so used to. Going through each day with it. But if I stop to notice, I can feel it in my stomach, you know, almost all the time.
[00:17:16] Some low level of it, uh, of it being anxiety and a lot of times as dread too, which I really don't like. I, I don't want dread, I don't want anxiety in my life either, , but I definitely don't want dread in my. , but you know, it, there's a moment often when I wake up in the morning and for, you know, like for a few seconds.
[00:17:43] Things seem good, and then it will hit me like, okay, now here's this that, you know that is going on. Or what are we going have to worry about today? Or, you know, as we and this dream we've, you know, acknowledged how scary weekends can be. And so it's not the same as it used to be. Like, always looking forward to Friday.
[00:18:13] Things may get worse. Um, and so, you know, it shows up like that. And then there are certain things that are just triggers, um, to, you know, certain notifications on my phone or anytime my phone makes any noise, if Logan's not. At home. And I don't know that he's all, that he is exactly where he's supposed to be.
[00:18:42] You know, if I hear any kind of notification, it's often a, a trigger like, oh no. Now what? Um, so, and it is distracting, you know, sometimes I'm am able to compartmentalize. Um, I think. I think it, I do it pretty well most of the time at work, but if something is in a real crisis situation, I know it can be distracting, um, at work as well.
[00:19:15] And it also shows up in, oh, a few different ways. I, I'm an introvert anyway, so it's not like I love social gatherings a lot of the time, but, Find myself, you know, avoiding a lot of them, a lot more, especially if I know someone's going to maybe ask, you know, how he's doing just instantly. Um, someone that I don't know well, who doesn't know the situation, who thinks, oh, you have an exciting senior year.
[00:19:49] Well, no, we're not . And so, um, you know, so things like that are ways it, it shows up and then, I also, um, feel almost all the time guilty that I am not, um, probably being as attentive a daughter as I should be at this stage because I just can't handle more so, I mean, I, I try, but I, I do feel bad. That I don't do better.
[00:20:28] Mm,
[00:20:29] Brenda: it's, it's really so pervasive, right? It's showing up in so many areas, anxiety in your stomach, that feeling of dread where you, you're just wondering, what is today gonna bring? What is this weekend gonna bring? Those triggers of your phone, the ding or. Or the lack of a ding when you're supposed to get a ding.
[00:20:59] Um, phones are incredibly triggering the distraction at work. Try trying to compartmentalize and so that's so common and I. I've heard men are better at it than women. I don't know if that's true or not, but I I have heard that, that dread of meeting somebody at the grocery store or somewhere at this school and it's like, oh, how's it going?
[00:21:24] It's, um, that's, yes, that's a very tricky one. And then, yeah, the guilt with, am I being as present as I should with my parents, with my spouse? With my friends. So that's a pretty comprehensive invasion of your life, I would say that you didn't have prior to 2020 probably these things. So when you think about that, that's not that long ago, right?
[00:21:54] So this has all hit you really hard in a pretty short amount of time that your life looks very different. Feels just somatically feels very different than it used to.
[00:22:12] Hi, I'm taking a quick break because I wanna let you know about the private online community I created and host for moms who have kids misusing drugs or alcohol. It's where I hang out between the episodes, so I wanted to share a little bit about it. This place is called The Stream, and it isn't a Facebook group.
[00:22:29] It's completely private away from all social media sites where you start to take care of yourself because through all of this, who is taking care of you. The Stream is a place where we teach the craft approach and skills to help you have better conversations and relationships, and we help you get as physically, mentally, and spiritually healthy as possible so that you can be even stronger for your son or daughter.
[00:22:56] You can join us free for two weeks to see if it's the right kind of support for you and learn more about all the benefits that you get as a member@thestreamcommunity.com, and I'll see you there. Now let's get back to the convers.
[00:23:13] When you think about the fact that you know your son's turning 18 this weekend, you're having all of these things go on, he's got his stuff with school. What, what do you see as something that you wanna see a shift that would help you feel like there's some forward progress? Cuz those are some of the things that we can talk.
[00:23:37] Looking at, okay, well I know I can't fix him or control him, especially you know, when you, when he turns 18. But when you think about the things outside of that, what are some things that come to mind? And we can just brainstorm so you don't have to like, just think of one. If you were to just brainstorm a few things that you feel like, man, if we could just get this shifted in a better direction.
[00:24:05] it would help relieve some of these feelings that I'm having. Well,
[00:24:11] Ellen: one thing that comes to mind is I would like to come to some kind of healthy balance between trusting him when I should not ne, you know, not suspecting everything. I do think I'm a little better than my husband at that, but there's, you know, a lot, um, um, and trusting my instincts, um, to be skeptical when I need to be.
[00:24:51] That that is a big struggle because you know, quite honestly and quite frighteningly. He's a really good liar and it's astonishing to me how much he has practiced it and, um, how okay he is with it and, um, and it, it almost feels like. Maybe because it is, maybe because it, and maybe it's not intentional, but it, it, you know, really gaslighting comes to mind and I start to question myself and my, um, you know, am I the illogical one here?
[00:25:39] You know, should. I feel like these things are happening, but he says they're these things and so, you know, am I, can I not trust my own judgment at all? You know? So I guess that's one really big thing, which is why, you know, we gave him so many chances to. Okay. Yes, you, you're outta your car. And we said all these things have to happen before you'll be back in including earning the money, which he's still at zero even though he is working because the money's going elsewhere.
[00:26:19] But, um, he. But you know, we let him borrow dad's truck and so many times because yes, I promise and no, I, you know, I'm, I'm not using, and no, I was with this guy, not those guys. And so it gets really hard to know what to believe, and I have not found what feels like any kind of balance between trusting my instincts.
[00:26:52] Not suspecting everything, um, that he does or says . Yeah.
[00:27:01] Brenda: Okay. So that's a good one. Kind of finding that balance between trust and your instincts and, and starting to get a little bit of a better grasp on reality versus the gas lighting, which I can 100% attest to. So confusing, so distressing makes you start to feel like you're losing control of your sanity.
[00:27:27] So I, I hear you on that. Is there anything else, or is that sort of the, the biggest thing that comes to mind? Is there anything like health wise or relationship wise or anything like that that is also sort of nagging at you? I think, um, if I.
[00:27:47] Ellen: Can just find some maybe additional strategies to deal with the rollercoaster life that we're on.
[00:27:59] Um, since I, I know I can't totally stop it. I certainly. There are things that I do every day, or it builds into my week every week that are key. And in a lot of ways I think I'm pretty good at self care, but it just, you know, like you described, the waves, the emotional won't exactly say. Pies. Well, that's a poor choice for our life, no pun
[00:28:39] Brenda: intended.
[00:28:40] Yeah,
[00:28:42] Ellen: you know, the, the really big ups, um, they're not that big right now, but, but there are some, like you said, and then just, you know, get. Crushed. Um, so often when we think, okay, we're, we're making progress, and then that just feels so disappointing. And, um, I, I guess with that, what, what would really be helpful is to find some way to keep hope, um, and being in the stream helps with that because, You know, I hear stories like yours where things have been really, really scary and um, I'm sure must have felt hopeless at times, but then better things have come, so, you know, and, and others who have, um, kids in better places now than they were so.
[00:29:46] Uh, that helps. But there are certainly a lot of times where, you know, with his attitude and, and when I find out he is spitting out meds and all this, just like, you know, you are a hard guy to help and it sometimes feels like, is there any hope that this will.
[00:30:10] Brenda: Yeah, well those are, those are really good ones I think.
[00:30:14] And I think we can at least touch on both of them. So maybe we can go back to, if it sounds good to you, could we go back to the, the kind of the trust balance one and then we'll, we'll look at the roller coaster. I'm wondering when you are trying to make this decision about do I trust, do I go with my gut instinct?
[00:30:35] And you would like to get that in better balance. What would be different if you did have that more imbalance? Like how would your day to day life feel different or look different than it does today? If you're like, yes, I kind of got this piece locked in now. What would be different? I think,
[00:30:59] Ellen: well, one, I would feel.
[00:31:02] Confidence in my decisions. And I would also be less likely to succumb to, I don't know if guilt is exactly the right word, but kind of, and I think it's the one, one of the ones he's trying to inspire, um, for holding, you know, for instance, holding tight with boundaries. So I think I would be less likely to succumb to that and.
[00:31:32] Um, I would feel less pressured and in this moment I can say I feel somewhat less pressured because I was super clear before he went out on that 90 mile, whatever it was, um, to and from the gym. Or you will never borrow dad's truck again. Yeah. And so, I think he took that somewhat to heart. Although he said when he came home, no, I didn't go anywhere else.
[00:32:03] And it said, dad's got a picture, he's watching my mileage now. You know? But, um, so I think he took it somewhat to heart, but he started asking again. He's not pushing yet, but I feel like that will come. And so I would love to be, you know, Ready when it doesn't come to just be able to hold on those tight on those boundaries.
[00:32:28] And I have to, the recent boundary workshop as well as, you know, watched past ones and those are, are great, but my gosh, he can be convincing and um, and pushy. And she came from sheeps . So . Yes. Um, so that would, I think those things would. I would be able to handle them better. Right. Okay. So
[00:32:50] Brenda: you would feel more confident in your decisions and be able to set the boundary and hold the boundary without sort of getting caught up in the, in his drama about the boundary.
[00:33:03] Yeah. Is that correct? Yeah. I'm wondering, um, I know you're a professional woman, you have a lot of interesting things going on in life. Where do you draw your confidence from in things like work, like other parts of your life where there is no doubt in your mind about how you are, what you feel, what you stand for?
[00:33:29] Where does that come from? Well,
[00:33:33] Ellen: I, I think one thing are my ethics, um, I recently was told by my husband about someone who told him someone, it's shocking. Um, I told him that we have to do whatever we have to do to make sure that our son graduates from high school, whether it's ethical or not. And I told him, you know, no way I am.
[00:34:11] So offended by that. And I, I, I, we have given up so much already that I am not giving up my ethics, my values, who I am. Uh, I think we talked a little bit before, like you, I am vegan and, um, I, you know, that's something that. Is a very important ethical, um, boundary for me, and there's no way I would cross it, you know, so in that, those areas I feel really confident and don't feel like I have to apologize for having.
[00:34:58] The ethics, you know, I try whatever to be rude or push mine on ethics, whatever we're talking about onto someone else, but I'm not gonna compromise mine.
[00:35:11] Brenda: Okay? So, How did you get to those ethics? How did you, let's take being vegan. I'm sure you didn't just wake up one morning and go, huh, today seems like a really good day to stop eating animal products.
[00:35:27] And you know what, what led to that? What, what makes you so confident in that, that you don't feel like you are gonna waiver
[00:35:37] Ellen: on that? Well, um, from the time I was really little, I, and at some point apparently learned that we were eating animals. I didn't like the idea and so I didn't really know back then, you know, what the degrees of being vegetarian were.
[00:36:00] But, um, I started thinking about ways that I. Could make that happen in my life as a captive young person. And so at age 12, made an announcement that, uh, I was never going to eat meat again and, um, was vegetarian. Um, That was in 1982 and, and then was vegetarian. I wanted to believe that that was enough because I, you know, obviously at some point in there I could have found out more information, but I was, um, putting up some intentional blinders, um, because, I don't know, I just wanted to believe I was doing enough and then I read a book that made me realize I wasn't doing enough to be.
[00:36:55] In alignment with what I said I believed. And so at that point I decided, okay, you know, if you're going to stand for these values, then um, then you do need to go vegan. So that was in 2008, um, that I switched from being vegetarian to being vegan.
[00:37:15] Brenda: So, so you, you listen to your. You listened to what was going on inside of you.
[00:37:22] You supplemented that with information and research. I'm sure this book that you read and just what felt right to you, even though it went against the grain, I'm sure, of other people that you knew, maybe in your family, maybe even your parents. So talk to me about how that same. Mindset could potentially apply to what you're going through now with your son.
[00:37:52] What do you know in your core about him, about what he's doing when he's trying to negotiate with you? What if he was saying, mom, come on, have a steak. Come on. Just have the steak. Look how good it is. Look how it's so tender. It's been cooked properly. It's amazing. Come on, mom. Have a steak. What? What goes through your mind when I say that?
[00:38:19] That could apply when he's saying, mom, come on, gimme the car. You know, I'm good. I'm not gonna go anywhere else. Come on, mom. Gosh, you're so, you're so crazy. I,
[00:38:33] Ellen: you know, it's easier to, of course, to think about now. Well, I just say no. But, um, then it is in the moment when he keeps on. But, um, I do feel like maybe the more we've gone through this again and again, and the fact that I was absolutely clear the last time, I was clear before, but I was super, super clear this last time.
[00:39:08] Um, you know what? What would happen, um, or what wouldn't happen in the future? I think that can
[00:39:18] Brenda: help
[00:39:19] Ellen: me to, you know, I shouldn't have to feel guilty now that I think about it that way, because he knew what the, the risk was without a doubt. He agreed to it, he promised, and there's no question that he misunderstood.
[00:39:38] So, You know, again, I guess it's, it's something I don't have to apologize for because it's a choice that he made. It's a natural consequence of the, um, of deciding not to do what he said he would do, which could have given him future opportunities. And, you know, that we always talk about, and I know he's not the only one, you know, he can't see right past his nose.
[00:40:08] Is going to happen when he makes a certain decision. And so, you know, I guess, you know, thinking about that, just like I don't feel like I have to apologize for my, my ethics, I shouldn't have to apologize for this either for holding onto that boundary with the decision that he made.
[00:40:31] Brenda: Right. And it sounds like the value that you hold behind that is his safety.
[00:40:38] The safety of other people. And so I just wonder if when those conversations come and you're starting to feel that, you know, kind of that like, oh, if, if you could keep in mind that you believe in as strongly in his safety and the safety of other people as you do. About some of these other, you know, values that you have in your life and that you don't have to apologize for not eating a steak.
[00:41:10] Just like you don't have to apologize for keeping him safe, even though he's not happy with that necessarily. You can say, you know, just like if somebody was, if he was offering you a steak, you say, you know, I'm just not gonna do. Just not gonna do it. And you don't have to explain why. You don't have to get into the 18 reasons and the books and da, da, da.
[00:41:31] And I just wonder if you could keep that same mindset to say, yeah, it's such a bummer. Right. And it sounds too, like you've mentioned a couple times the fact that you made it very clear up front, and I think that's often, uh, I just wanted to highlight that, um, and commend you on that because. . I think often as parents, we, we think we have been really clear about setting a boundary, but we haven't really, we've kind of said, well, you know, da da da da.
[00:42:02] And so it seems like this was different perhaps than other times when you've had the conversation and so that seems like it's been really good for you to be able to hang onto that and to say, I know for a fact this is what we communicated. And sometimes people put it in writing, right? Like I had to do that with my son cuz he was so good at manipulating me and making me feel crazy that I started writing things down, um, just for my own sanity.
[00:42:34] Cause if I was the one losing my mind. So that may just be something that when you start to feel the crazy swirl, The guilt, the unclear, you know, balance between do I trust, do I not, do I, do I budge or do I not? Just going back to, and we talk about this in the workshop as well as in the workshop. Why we start with the value is what is the value I need to uphold?
[00:43:06] And it's not about all the details about I drove 60 miles or 92 miles, or I, you know, Those, he will bring those in to confuse the situation. Cuz that makes for really good side tracking. Mm-hmm. . Right? And if you can say, wow, that's really interesting information. Actually I'm over here. This is why this isn't gonna happen.
[00:43:32] And leave it at that. Right? Because there's so, so they're just masters. Distraction and all of the details are really good distraction, where the, the really what you can ground yourself in is that value. And as you know now as he's turning 18 and as he gets older, trying to slide a bit more into that consultant role.
[00:43:59] You know, and, and I think this is really good when we're trying to avoid problem solving for them and all that is, huh, that's really interesting. What are you gonna do about that? You know, that's really interesting that you only were online for four hours yesterday instead of six. What are you gonna do about that?
[00:44:19] So that's his thing to solve, right? And if you are there grounded in your value, You can sort of let go of some of the other stuff. Does that make sense?
[00:44:32] Ellen: Yes, it, it does. And I, I will say I've in some ways kind of taken that, or you know, at least part with that approach with school now, and I, I've told my husband it's possible he won't graduate and that.
[00:44:55] Not our plan. That was, you know, not where we've been headed, but we can't, we can't make him. And so, um, I will say, you know, so what's your plan for making, making these deadlines that have been extended for you and will now be permanent zeros? You know, if you don't, and. So far other than actually getting that six hour day, which is a big thing.
[00:45:22] That's a great thing. He, you know, that hasn't necessarily resulted in the, what I would hope would happen, but, um, but yes, I definitely have recognized, and it will be even more so being 18, that I have. Like, go even, even more and give him the chance to succeed or not, but yeah, not, not give him a car to succeed or not.
[00:45:51] Cause that's too dangerous with that safety value, like you said. So. Yeah,
[00:45:56] Brenda: absolutely. That's absolutely, and you know, and I've said this before, um, based on my family's experience, high school, Can be done anywhere at any time. Right. My, I have the greatest picture of my son at his residential treatment program with a little cap on and a wrinkled gown that I think every kid there wears, you know, with his diploma and it, it doesn't matter right where that comes from.
[00:46:25] So I always just try to remind parents cuz we get so focused on. That marker. And his mental health and physical health right now is the priority over that diploma. And I know that's really hard a lot of the time to kind of wrap our heads around, but high school can be done in so many different ways at different times.
[00:46:52] So, um, the other thing I'm wondering with, and then we're gonna go to the roller coaster before we wrap up. I know you've done so many of our craft classes, you're a great student of that. How does he respond to positive? Reinforcement. Cause it sounds like there's these positive things that are going on kind of sprinkled in throughout the chaos.
[00:47:11] But how does he respond when you give him positive reinforcement?
[00:47:15] Ellen: I, I think he cares about it. It's sometimes hard to tell. When I got the email from the teacher today, I immediately sent a text to him, you know, copied well, the one, the group text with his dad and, uh, sent a text and said, confirmed with your teacher.
[00:47:35] That you got your six hour day yesterday, um, and it was verified by the office. Congratulations. You know, and then my husband sent three, you know, bicep emoji, right? And so, There was no acknowledgement on his part. Yeah. But I hope that that means something. Um, we, you know, I, I do try to reinforce. He actually, a couple days ago went, um, with my mom.
[00:48:14] He ignores her quite a bit, but went with her. Because she's buying in birthday clothes, but they both had a really good day. She sent me real excited texts. She called me and then when I got home, he tried on all these new clothes and grandma gave him a bracelet that he was excited about, and so I have said, Several times, you know, really meant a lot to grandma that you spent time with her the other day.
[00:48:43] And, um, she said, you had a really good day. And he said, yeah, I did. And so, you know, I said, you know, I probably would really mean a lot if you could write her a thank you note. And he said, I will. Don't know that he will, but I have tried to reinforce that and, you know, maybe you can text her and thank her again or something.
[00:49:05] But yeah, I. We also can talk, we share some interest in conversation around, um, lifting, um, lifting weights. That's his big thing since he gave up running and cycling and, but you know, it's part of my training and then my. I have background, academic background and that, but, um, when he's focused on that, it can go too far because body dysmorphia is part of the mix of all the stuff we're doing, right?
[00:49:42] Yeah. But, um, it can also be a very good distraction from other things. And so, Even if we can't talk about much else at a given time, I can say, so, you know, what? Are you gonna work today? Or How, how'd your workout go? Tell me about it. What, what did you do? How much did you lift? Or I'll, um, He was measuring his biceps the other day, and so I said, okay, I've been lifting heavy again.
[00:50:15] I love it. I feel like reinforcing that activity because of all the activities he does, the, the working out is probably the best one. Um, I don't, that's, you know, certainly not the reason he does it, but it gives him a reason. To talk to me sometimes and Yeah. Something that we can relate to on a positive level.
[00:50:44] Yes,
[00:50:45] Brenda: yes. Which is so great. It's, it's really so great. And the more that you do that and, you know, really start letting him sort of figure out the, the ins and outs of how he's gonna finish school or how he's gonna get around without a car, you know, those, those can help. That rollercoaster, the more you can detach from that, um, people often hear detached and they think detaching from their kids.
[00:51:12] It's actually detaching from having to control or be in their business having to, or wanting to kind of manipulate the outcomes right, of what they're doing. So the more that you can pull back from that, and talk about working out and not trying to weave a lesson in, right. Just talking about that. Giving the positive reinforcement and I would say even just the positive reinforcement, not, well, maybe you could do this.
[00:51:43] Well maybe you could do that. Cuz that's still like, right. It's just one more like, oh my mom's still telling me what to do. Just so, so appreciate you doing that with grandma. That's just so special. Period. Yeah,
[00:52:00] Ellen: right.
[00:52:01] Brenda: Just because it almost negates If we then make a suggestion like that, it almost negates.
[00:52:08] They don't hear the positive. All they hear is the nag nag, na, my mom's na. Even though to us it doesn't feel like nagging, what they hear is, I still didn't do it right. Like I had to stay with my grandma. I did all these things, but I still didn't do it. All right. I still need to write this letter. I still need to send a text.
[00:52:28] What they hear is what we didn't like about what they did instead, what we, what we really truly do appreciate. So that would just be one little thing, but I think you're on the right path of riding the rollercoaster a little bit more, unless even just because you're aware of it, when you start to feel that wave coming up to crash.
[00:52:52] You do have tools to use and that's when sometimes even just acknowledging that mentally, you say, oh, I feel, I feel a weekend coming. I feel like maybe things are gonna be a little hairy. Just even recognizing that and saying, okay, it could be, here are the things I know that I can do, and I know you do those.
[00:53:14] And so sometimes when we can't control and we can't control what's going on. Being aware of the fact that we can't control it, and being aware of what's my strategy for the weekend if it does get hairy, and that could even be, I am not gonna deal with it until Tuesday. Right? Like, whatever happens this weekend, if he does this or he does that, or he's late, I'm giving myself a break for this weekend.
[00:53:44] And you could even tell him that, listen, mom's kind of taken a mental break until Tuesday. Just to let you know and just see what, you know, see what he, what, what his reaction to that is. Doesn't mean that you would ignore a safety situation, obviously, but Right. Just kind of giving yourself a break from everything.
[00:54:05] Letting your mind go a little bit. Hopping on that bike, getting out there as much as you can, cuz there is no. Deadline, right. For these things like, oh, this happened. Now I have to respond right away. Putting a little distance between you and whatever has to happen might be a good way to just control the waves a little bit as they come and go.
[00:54:28] So, well, how are you feeling about, kind of thinking about what your balance there is, how your. Kind of traversing this crazy terrain that you're on. How are you feeling?
[00:54:44] Ellen: It's been, it's been real helpful. Um, I think talking through the, um, you know, the comparison really to holding onto my ethics and the situation and, you know, trusting my myself regardless of what he's saying.
[00:55:05] Um, that was helpful to. You know, just to kind of recognize that there is no reason to, um, that I, I should feel bad when I am certain that I've been really clear. There's just no reason that I have to, doesn't mean life might still not get fairly miserable, but at least I don't have to add guilt onto that.
[00:55:31] Yeah. And I can. I have said this before, doesn't always work, but I can say, um, you know, I, I'm, we talked about it. I'm just not going to engage anymore. You know, we're not going to keep arguing, so, yeah. And, you know, sometimes that then results and things getting punched. But um, yes,
[00:55:58] Brenda: that that is, that is a common response if anybody's wondering.
[00:56:03] Um Right. But you don't have to get drawn into all of his distraction tactics. Yeah. Which is what a lot of these are, right? We, we see a kid who's like yelling or punching something or doing this. Those are great distractions cuz the more he can suck you into that. The less ability you have over here to think clearly and confidently and be really rooted in your ethics and your values.
[00:56:28] So he's gonna do whatever he can to to pull you into that, and the more you can just observe that and say, that is so interesting. , I'm gonna be over here on my bike. That is so interesting. I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go take a bath, whatever it is, . Um, he'll start to see that and he'll see, oh, okay, my mom's not getting sucked into this.
[00:56:49] Um, and, and that might, you know, who knows what the outcome that will be, but usually they start to see, okay, what I was doing isn't working. And the more you're leaning on the positive reinforcement and the talking about things have nothing to do with any of these issues. Um, the more he's gonna start to see that you're working with him and not against him.
[00:57:11] So I think that's a really positive direction to go. Thank you so much, Ellen, for letting us sort of peek into your world. And I know these help people so much, so I appreciate you being vulnerable and willing. I know it's not always easy, but I can, I can tell you that it will absolutely help somebody, um, who's listening.
[00:57:31] So thank.
[00:57:33] Ellen: Well, thanks Brenda. I appreciate it, uh, very much and I'm, I'm just so thankful for you for the stream, all the, the wonderful moms in there for the podcast. Um, all of it makes a huge difference for me and, and for our family.
[00:57:50] Brenda: Good. Good. Yeah. It's a pretty cool bunch, huh? That we've got in there, . Yes.
[00:57:55] Awesome. Well, thank you, and I'll hopefully see you at a craft class and we'll stay in touch so I can hear how it's going. All right.
[00:58:04] Ellen: Thanks, Brenda. Thanks. Okay. Bye bye.
[00:58:09] Brenda: Okay, that is it for today. If you would like to get the show notes for this episode, you can go to brenda zza.com/podcast. All of the episodes are listed there and you can also find curated playlists there, so that's very helpful.
[00:58:26] You might also wanna download a free ebook I wrote, it's called Hindsight. Three Things I Wish I Knew When My Son Was Misusing Drugs. It'll give you some insight as to why your son or daughter might be doing what they are, and importantly, it gives you tips on how to cope and how to be more healthy through.
[00:58:47] Time, you can grab that free from brenda za.com/h. Thank you so much for listening. I appreciate it, and I hope that these episodes are helping you stay strong and be very, very good to yourself. And.