long term recovery requires discipline to focus on the present and appreciation for the blessings it brings, with Jeremy Melloul
Host: Brenda Zane, brenda@brendazane.com
Guest: Jeremy Melloul, founder of MOLT Clothing Co.
Instagram: @the.stream.community
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Podcast support from:
This episode is supported by The Stream. You might be wondering who else is listening to this podcast and dealing with the same kinds of issues you are. You may also want to go beyond the podcast and dive deeper into the subjects with other moms who get it.
The Stream is the place where all of that happens. It’s a modern, online space where moms who have kids struggling with substance use and addiction issues focus on their own health, wellness, and sanity. There’s no judgment and no drama (it's not on Facebook), and our community is based on positive thinking and learning CRAFT skills. We have weekly events, a book club, yoga classes, workshops, expert guest speakers, and supportive conversations.
Being a member of The Stream gives you an even deeper connection beyond the podcast where you get to interact with amazing moms and me every day. So if you'd like to hang out with us after the episodes, you can learn more and join us at www.thestreamcommunity.com. The first two weeks are always free to see if it’s the right support for you, so there’s no risk. We hope to see you soon.
About this episode:
In this special episode, I’ve invited Jeremy Melloul, owner of MOLT Clothing company back on the show. Jeremy joined me on episode 90 to share his story of early exposure and addiction that very nearly took his life a few times and what intercepted that risky path for his life.
We covered so much ground in that episode that I thought it would be great to check-in with Jeremy and see how things are going. We talk about what recovery looks like on a daily basis, how he has to fight to overcome his desire to isolate, and the wisdom he’s gained along the road.
Additionally, we explore the impact of social media on the recovery journey and why choosing the slower fix is a process that requires a lot of self-compassion. Don’t forget to go check out wearmolt.com where you can buy the favorite guy in your life an incredible t-shirt or hoodie. The bonus? You can feel good knowing some of your money will go to support other individuals in their journey towards sobriety.
Episode resources:
Episode 90: from heroin needle to sewing needle, giving back through recovery with Jeremy Melloul
Check out the Store: www.wearmolt.com
Connect on Instagram: @wearmolt
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Brenda: Hello and welcome. You are listening to Hopestream the podcast for parents who have teens or young adult kids who are misusing drugs or alcohol, or both, and struggling with mental health. I'm your host, Brenda Zane and I am parent to a now 25-year-old, who struggled for years with an addiction to a high-risk lifestyle and substances, and whom I nearly lost to multiple fentanyl overdoses.
So I can relate and just know this is a safe space for you. You can learn more about me and the work I do to serve parents like you@brendazane.com. I am so glad you're here today. And before we dive into a really great conversation, I wanna check in and make sure you're taking the time to take care of yourself.
I know it feels completely counterintuitive when your child is struggling in life and it's normal to feel that way. However, if you're not taking a bit of time every day for yourself, it is with a capital is having a negative impact on the people, around you and on yourself as well. I like to think about it this way.
Let's say you are going to hire someone to take over for you and do all the things that you do for your family. Plus all that you're doing for the son or daughter who brings you here to listen to Hopestream. So think of all that work that you're doing at home in your career for your parents, your kids.
Your community, all of it. Now, let me offer you a person who is available on the market, who could potentially fill this huge job. They usually get about five hours of sleep a night, sometimes less, but not all in a row because they wake up several times in a panic. Also, this person is pretty undernourished because they don't take the time to make meals anymore.
They just default to fast food or whatever's around, but they are a former state champion, long distance runner, although they haven't put their shoes on for the last year because they just can't really get motivated and they worry obsessively about things that may or may not happen. They also have near-constant brain fog and greens.
Is this the person that you wanna put in charge of navigating your son or daughter's circumstances? I am guessing not. So this is why I keep reminding you over and over to take a few minutes every day and breathe, do something you enjoy. Trust me, this is not going to make things worse. It will actually over time help you start to feel a lot better.
Overall. Interestingly, this is the exact conversation I got into with one of my favorite guests from 2021. You might remember his episode title, which was from heroin needle to sewing needle, giving back through recovery. The guy I am talking about is Jeremy Mullo. He is the founder of malt and LA based clothing company.
He started imports a ton of passion into he's also a guy in long-term recovery. If you missed that first episode, I would highly recommend rewinding your podcast machine and finding episode 90 because it is full of really great insights. You should definitely also check out his t-shirts and support malt because they give a percentage of profits to a sober living scholarship.
And we all know how important that is. So please do check them out at where malt, w E a R M O lt.com and same on Instagram at where mold in today's conversation. Jeremy and I covered a lot of ground in a pretty free flowing dialogue, which I love, and it really brought to light for me, how recovery for our kids and our kids who are trying to get there.
It's a really active, lifelong thing. It's something that has to be worked at, and it brings its own of course, various blessings along with it. Jeremy is a highly sensitive and vulnerable guy who tells it like it is and has a unique ability. I feel to let us get a peak behind the curtain. So to speak of someone who has been in the really dark depths of where addiction takes people to his current life, where he is successful by all external markers, yet he still has to do his work every day to maintain a state of balance in his life.
He's real. He is raw and he is fired up about the pressures that people feel today. And this is including our teens and young adults and even adult children, this constant barrage of messages that we get to do more, achieve more, be better, be more successful. And there are just some people for whom those messages are damaging and debilitating.
So you will hear more about that. You'll love this conversation. So we are gonna flow right into it. Here's Jeremy Malo from mot talking about what key is up to now enjoy.
Jeremy: I've just been busy with, with building the brand and designing new styles, introducing that, um, staying sober. Yeah. You know, that's the
Brenda: best, a good way to stay busy.
Jeremy: Yeah. Working, uh, steps with a new sponsor. Nice. And, um, kind of like recommitting myself to that again. Um, cuz as life, you know, tends to happen, like we just talked about earlier, we can kind of forget to do the things that we need to do. and the things that got us to where we are, you know, um, you know, life, life can get big and it can get busy.
And, um, if you don't continue to take care of yourself and for me, like my program and my mental health and, you know, just have my practices and stuff like that, like life will end up dealing with me. So I, I just, you know, it's, so I'm trying to like find the balance again, you know, between like work and just my personal life.
Right? Yeah. You know, it's one of those things where it's been like, okay, like the get to sobriety has given me a lot of things. And, um, it's given me the ability to get, get jobs, right. Be able to make money in order to like, save, to be able to start a company. I'm passionate about. Right. And it's given me all these things, but if I don't tend to that recovery aspect, you know, like it quickly, my disease can pop up.
Right. And yeah, like alcohol and drugs are no longer a problem for me anymore. You know? Um, I don't think about them. I don't obsess about them. Right. The obsession has been lifted. Um, but there are still alcoholic tendencies inside of me. Right? Yeah. And there are certain things that I will do to isolate.
Right. And I will not, you know, certain things I won't do like to be more service, but they're just. Character defects that I have about me that tend to like crop up. Right. And, um, if I don't like keep, you know, deal with those things, then, um, the life, my life around me starts to kind of fall apart. And it's not as in like spectacular fashion as it would be if I were, you know, putting a needle in my arm.
Right. You know, like I was, I mean, that was very apparent, but it's, it's like a slow drip of like things that start to add up and you're like, oh man. And then you feel like things are unmanageable at that point. Right. Um, so it's just kind of like really finding a balance and being able to like take care of myself, take care, you know, taking care of my program is taking care of myself, but like, I need to find time.
To not only like do my program right. And my company, but also do things that I enjoy doing in my life. enjoy life, enjoy life. And honestly, like, you know, I've been having trouble lately of figuring out what that really is honestly like, um, I just turned 40 in may. Congratulations. So I don't know if that's a congratulations, but
Brenda: well, when you're my age.
Yes. That's a congratulations.
Jeremy: yeah. So I, you know, that was like a whole thing for me, right? Yeah. Um, turning 40. That was not easy. Yeah. Just cuz like, and just, you know, at any point, if you wanna reel me in from like talking about certain stuff. No, no, it's all good. I just feel like this is like kind of relevant.
Um, yeah. Especially for like parents to, I mean, they probably are aware, but like, you know, maybe some kids and stuff like that, but I mean, we live in a society today where like, Everyone's life is like televised or is put out there televised old, but you know what I mean? Put on social media. Right. But like not the, like the shit parts, excuse my language.
Yeah. You know, they only put like the cool parts and you know, there's this whole FOMO and this is like whole thing of like comparing your life to others. Right. You know? Cause it's on display, you know, , we're just displaying all this stuff and everyone's like a brand these days and it's like, everyone's got something to say and everybody's got, you know, something to do and whatnot.
And you can find yourself, um, comparing your life to those, your peers. Right. Mm-hmm and um, I, I found myself doing that as well, you know? So I, I started comparing my lives like, all right. I'm like 40 years old. Like, what am I, what am I do? You know? Yeah. I'm building a company, you know, but it's like, it's very tough to do you know what I mean?
I'm essentially starting all over in that regard. You know what I mean? Like, do I know if it's gonna be success? I, I don't know. Like, is it. It already is in my mind because like I've done it and I build all these things and I've, I've come this far, but like being able to like sustain it and to scale, right.
And to be able to like support myself and all that stuff. Those are all like questions that are haven't been answered yet. Yeah. So, um, here I am comparing myself to people like some friends, you know, married, have a house, have kids, all that stuff. Like I don't have any of that. Right. You know, and it's kind of like, so that's what was like a hard time for me, you know, and to really look at my life and to kind of take, have like a little pity party, but, you know, it was important for me to like kind of bounce back from that to kind of just be in a place of acceptance and be like, you know what, like I talk to my married friends, I have kids and stuff like that.
And they talk to me about my situation. They're like, wow, man, I would kill your situation right now. , you know what I mean? And I'm like, okay, it's all about perspective. Right. You know, it's also just like, we're all in our own journey. Right. It's like we. Built differently, you know? And, and another thing is like, you have all these, like, I don't wanna gurus if you will, or like motivational speakers.
Right. Cause if you have a phone, you have a social media account, then all of a sudden you're a motivational speaker, right? Yes. And you have all these people that are like saying these things, like, all you have to do is just like, you know, you get up early, you do the things, you know, you push through your fears, you know, they break it down in this like simple, like black and white thing.
And I'm like, listen, you know, that's cool. And all that works for some people, but like a lot of people struggle just to get out of bed every day. Not because like, they don't want to believe me. They want to, they just can't, you know, there's like a mental health issue there. People we're all. Different in a way.
Right. You know, like some people struggle with the disease of alcoholism and addiction. Right. You know, some people struggle with depression, anxiety, O C, D all these things, and just pushing through fears. Isn't enough to get you through that. Right. Isn't enough. Like yeah. You know, so it's like, it's very important to like, see things that are out there.
Right. You know, I think kids and stuff like, oh, like that person does it, like what the, you know, they could be asked themselves, like what the fuck's wrong with me. Yeah. Like, there's nothing wrong with you. What they're doing doesn't necessarily apply to you because you're not that person, you're your own person.
And you just kind of have to figure out what applies to you and, and accept, you know, like for me, like I have a lot of feelings, right? Like mental health is also an issue for me. It has been my entire life. Right. And I need to know that. Certain things just aren't that easy for me and that's okay. You know what I mean?
And to accept that, like to work on it, you know, to not look at myself as maybe like the victim, just to be like, I, I am who I am and, and that's all right. You know, and, um, where I may, like things struggle in certain areas or certain areas where I don't struggle, you know what I mean? And those people might struggle in areas.
I don't, it's really like kind of, I went in this whole tangent. I don't even know if I was like, it's tangent. It's great. Tangent. I just, I, I, I find it today. Cuz I personally don't like social media at all, likem, not a fan. I also just don't really care what other people are doing in their lives. Like I've never been one of those people that's like has to have content and can scroll for hours.
Right in that. Anytime I do go on social media, I find, I always. Not feeling right. Feeling worse than I did when I was on there a little, little dirty, what, like, yeah. Dirty or just kind of like ungrateful for how my life is, you know what I mean? Yeah. And like, you know, I think having a lack of gratitude can be dangerous if that's the word I'm looking for.
I don't know that it is, but life's tough, you know, and we need to not give us more reasons to make it even more tough, you know? Um, so yeah, that's what I've been up to. nice. Nice. Is kind of like, just really, really like trying to like listen to myself and honor myself in a way where it's like, does this, does this make you feel good?
Like, is. like, is this an alignment with who you
Brenda: are? No, I, I think what you're saying is so true and I see it with my boys. My oldest is 25 and he's not a social media guy at all, so he doesn't really worry about it. But my 22 year old, very much, like he thinks he should be a millionaire by now and that he should be, you know, doing all these things.
I'm like, buddy, you're 22. Like, what are you saying? I should have a house by now and I should have all these things. So I think what you're saying really resonates and, and the thing is they like these younger guys and gals, they don't know anything different. So they don't like, there is no, you know, I try to.
Well, and then I sound like the really old mom, um, saying you don't need to worry about that stuff, but it's like, but I do. But look at this and look at that. And it's like, oh my gosh. So much.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Brenda: Like it's so much too much to do to deal with in their head. So
Jeremy: it's an instant gratification world too, that they live in, right?
Yes. You know what I mean? And that's like a scary place, right? Because it's like, especially with like drugs and alcohol. Right. You know, that's like, I, I quickly found out when I first used that was like, oh, I don't have to feel this way. Cuz I can just feel this way every time. And it's instant and it's instant, you know what I mean?
And it's hard to, um, to manage emotions. You. Yeah. Uh, for me, it always has been it's, uh, you know, even at almost 15 years sober, right. And 40 years old. Right. You know, it's still hard for me to manage emotions. Right. Cause I'm just an emotional guy, like really raw and sensitive in that regard. But like, I, I, I have come a long way to the point where like, I know that there's a solution.
Right. And there's certain things to, you know, I know that drugs and alcohol aren't the solution. Right. Right. I also know that like, you know, sex is not the solution, you know what I mean? Or things that make me feel good, you know, like necessarily like vices and stuff. But I do know that like, okay, maybe for me, like praying right.
Or. Going for like when I'm anxious and I'm there, like, you know what, stop what you're doing right now. And like, just go for a walk, clear your mind and stuff like that. Like that's like taking care of yourself. Right. And that's like trying to know, find a solution, you know, um, go to a meeting or whatever.
But back to like, not to, I guess, take a conversational left turn in a way, but it's just like, there is a lot for, I, I'm not a parent. You, you are obviously, and a lot of people listening are parents and, um, that's not something I'd, I'd really, you know, a task that like, I envy in a sense because I'm like, wow, like how parents are dealing with like kids in this, like this world today is like, you guys are right.
Brutal. I mean, you guys are rock stars for being able to do it. I think, you know, and it's like, I know I gave my parents every gray hair on their head and I grew up in the eighties and nineties. Right. You know, you know, even then they're like, Things today, it's all relative, but like the Internet's a scary place.
And, um, social media, I feel like is the devil, excuse me, you know, I'm sorry if that offends anybody. Uh, but I think it's going to, I think it has a potential to help some people, but I think all in all, it's creating these, uh, insecurities in a lot of people. And, uh, I think like the, uh, the suicide rate amongst like teens and stuff is up and all these, you know, just bullying and eating dis all eating disorders, all these things are all stem from like trauma.
You know what I mean? Mm-hmm and trauma can be, you know, inflicted. You know, self inflicted in a way where like you can see it through a screen.
Brenda: Hi, I'm taking a quick break because I wanna let you know about the private online community I created and host for moms who have kids misusing drugs or alcohol. It's where I hang out between the episodes. So I wanted to share a little bit about it. This place is called the stream and it isn't a Facebook group.
It's completely private away from all social media sites where you start to take care of yourself. Because through all of this who is taking care of you, the stream is a place where we teach the craft approach and skills to help you have better conversations and relationships. And we help you get as physically, mentally, and spiritually healthy as possible so that you can be even stronger for your son or daughter.
You can join us free for two weeks to see if it's the right kind of support for you and learn more about all the benefits that you get as a member at the stream, community.com. And I'll see you there. Now let's get back to the conversation
I wanted to just, you said something that I think is a really crucial thing, and that is that at some point. you have to choose the slower fix because the drugs and the alcohol and whatever else is a really quick fix to, to what people are looking to numb out. Mm-hmm, calm down to quiet down and like what you were talking about.
Like, I have to stop, maybe take a walk, pray, whatever it is, those are great solutions, but they're, they work a lot slower sometimes, especially in the beginning than just taking a drink or taking a hit. So how do you think young people, especially like when you kind of rewind in your mind, how do you get somebody to say, look, choose the slower fix.
It's gonna be better in the long run when, when we are this world of like instantaneous microwave solutions, what, like, how do you do
Jeremy: that? Well, that is a million dollar question, but I'm kind of like, you know, for me, it's. What comes to mind when you ask me that is like, how do you, like, how do you phrase it in a way where someone can like, kind of like, see the severity of their actions, right?
Whether it's like, you know, instant gratification or like the slower, healthier way, or, or however you phrase it. Mm-hmm, , it's kind of like, if you want things to change. Right. I, because I believe like the only way things are gonna change if you actually want them to change. Right, right, right. You know, like if you don't want things to change and you're ha like, you're fine, then it's not going to, but, you know, I, I think like understanding what the definition of insanity is for me.
Right. And is like doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results. Yeah. You know, it's like, if you keep doing the same thing, you're gonna con you're gonna continue to feel the same way, you know? And. There is a kid or is just something, you know, and it's like, I don't like that. I'm doing, I want to stop doing that.
It's like, maybe like, I don't, that's a very hard question. How do you relate that to, to somebody who is looking for that instant gratification because of to relieve any kind of suffering cuz ultimately that's what we yeah. Why, why we do it right. You know? Yeah.
Brenda: Well I guess it's it's like you said, you have to, the person has to be at the point where it's like, Hmm, the way I've been solving this has worked to some degree, but then there's a lot of downsides to it, you know?
So maybe I should try different way that doesn't have so many downsides. I don't know. That's kind of where I see people get to the point where it's like, yeah, I could do that. And I know where that leads or maybe I could try something else. That's gonna take a little longer. It's not gonna be as instantaneous, but you.
Until you get to that point where you can have that thought process in your head. I just, I don't know how cuz that's, that's what I hear from all the, the parents that I work with. They're like, where is that tipping point? Like where's where does the light bulb go on? And the only thing I can say, just in talking to so many people and with my own son is it's like, it just happened something.
It could be the littlest thing. It could be a big thing. Like I remember you, I went back and listened to your first episode this morning. And you talked about being in the hospital and kind of having this white light moment in the hospital where it was just like. Okay. Like I surrender, like, that's it.
And I, I think that's from the parent's point of view, what's so frustrating is we want a formula. We want, like, if you do a, B and C, then D will happen and it doesn't work that way. Right. That's that's the only conclusion I can come to after the conversations that I've had with people.
Jeremy: Yeah. I mean, that's, I, yeah.
Everyone wants like a formula. Right. Everyone wants like shit laid out for them, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Like
Brenda: tell me the steps to take so that this will
Jeremy: end . Yeah. You know, and really it's kind of like, again, everybody's different. Right. You know, um, some people. I can only speak on my experience. Right. Cause that's all I have.
I know that I am somebody that doesn't really learn from being told. Right. I learn from doing mm-hmm and finding out what the consequences of those actions are. As I'm getting older. Now I'm more like I can have more, you know, maturity and I can under experience. And I'm like, okay, well obviously if I do that, like, I know what's gonna happen.
That's not a good thing to do. I'm not going to do that. But someone who's young, you know, is kind of like, oh, like you think, you know, everything, which is astonishing because it's unbelievable. Um, but I would, I thought I knew everything, you know, and it's kind of one of those things where it's like, for me, I had to touch that stove.
Right. You know? Right, right. I thought I was unique in that sense, you know, I thought I was like, oh, like they don't know better. I know better. I'm not gonna get burned. Ouch. Yeah. Okay. Maybe I am gonna get burned, you know, like I, I don't know. I guess to say to parents, like for me, it's like I only got sober and states sober cause I wanted to.
Yeah, because I absolutely had to, because that's the way I looked at it. I was like, I's either dad or I'm, I'm gonna die and I can't do this anymore, you know? Yeah. And I can't tell you how many people I see come in like sponsee, you know, and stuff. And I'm like, you gotta do the work. You gotta do steps or not.
They don't call. They don't do all the, you know, direction that I give them. And they're kind of there for maybe cuz their parents make 'em and stuff like that. And, and you know, they may get six months to a year sober, but like not much change has taken place. And then they're ultimately back out, you know?
Yeah. Doing stuff. And then I've seen those kids come back in a couple years later and they're like, I'm ready. You know what I mean? Like I finally hit bottom. Like now this time I'm getting sober for myself, you know? Right,
Brenda: right. That's gotta be a little heartbreaking and frustrating from somebody who's already been through those phases and you're watching somebody else go through it and, you know, know, like, I know I know where you are, but, um, I'm sure it's it.
Gotta be so great for them to have somebody who gets that. And you're, I imagine you're much more sort of patient and accepting than parents are because we have that, like Umbi, especially moms. We have this umbilical relationship where we're just like, it is just such torture to see our kids go through this.
So I just think it's amazing to have people like you who are willing to really walk through that with other people and be there through the, all of the ping ponging around and the decisions they have to make and, and the lessons that you have to learn for yourself. And you said something when I was listening to your first episode, you said something I thought was very insightful and I wanted to see if you would talk a little bit more about it, which is, you said adversity introduces us to who we are.
And I just thought, wow, that's really. So true, but I thought, I'd see if you have any expansion on that that you would wanna give.
Jeremy: Uh, I said that, wow, you did no, I, I do remember that. Yeah. And that's like, kind of like a like core belief of, of mine in a way is like I do like, and it's been my experience in my life.
Right. And the only time I've ever grown really is not the times where I've like been happy in a sense, you know, it's been in like the times that I've struggled, you know, and it's been through the hard times. Mm-hmm and, uh, you know, adversity, like when things are easy street for you, you don't really have an opportunity to.
Figure out what you're made of. Right. You know, um, yeah. To sharpen tools, uh, that you've never used right. Or tools that you've forgotten and, um, to be resourceful. Right. And to, um, there's something beautiful about being broken down and then build back up. Right. You know, and it's like fortifying yourself and, you know, so adversity is a very important.
Thing. It's also a very relatable thing. You know, I think a lot of people who have been through a lot of adversity have a high level of empathy. Right. You know, and can relate to a lot more people in a sense where it's like, I, I just have more, yeah. I just have more empathy for people. More, more love for myself and more love for others.
And, um, I've met people who haven't really faced much adversity in their life and it's, it's, it's hard to relate to those, to those people, because I'd say like, that is a very small percentage of the population in this world. Right? Yeah. But you know, it's also one of those things, like people can face adversity and they can not take action right.
To stand up now. Yeah. You know, I was that did that for years, you know, being. Drug addiction, you know, I didn't, and I just kept using and using, using yeah. Until I didn't. So I, I don't know if that like IPOed on that at all. Um,
Brenda: yeah, no, I, I just think it's, it's a really great reminder that some, something good can come out of all of the pain cuz so many, you know, parent, I mean, kids are obviously in so much pain and I think even more so now than ever, uh, with social media, especially after COVID, um, there's just a lot of really hurting kids out there.
So they're going through the adversity and then the parents are watching this happen a lot of the times and you know, don't know how to help, don't know what to do. And you know, this is my way of like getting like what do I do with this mountain of pain that I went through with my son? And so this is my way.
So that's what I just love about it is cause like I feel like I found me. Through my adversity. Mm-hmm and, um, I just think it's a little bit of a silver lining that you can give to people to say, you might not have found it yet, but this experience is going to teach you something it's gonna give you something that you wouldn't have had.
You're gonna be a different person. And you know, you, you do find those little nuggets in yourself that you probably wouldn't find if you were just breezing through life. And, you know, didn't have to spend the time in that kind of icky place to figure that out. Yep.
Jeremy: So exactly. You know, and it's off it's back.
I wanna say often, I'd say like, like I'd say probably almost a hundred percent of the times is when we're actually going through that adversity. I mean, we don't know why we're going through it. Right. We don't know what the outcome of that's gonna be. We don't know the better version of ourselves. That's gonna arrive after it's done.
You know what I mean? So it's like, that's where faith comes in. You know, for me, you know, it's having faith in a power, greater myself, and it's an understanding that like, this is all happening for a reason, you know? And I just have to trust in, in, in God for me. And, uh, yeah, I have to trust in the process, you know, And, uh, just know that like, I'm okay.
Like today they sit before you. I am actually okay. Like I have my stuff that I'm stressing out about. Right. And I have like, feels like what feels like, you know, the world on my shoulders at times, you know? But like, if I really like take a step back and I look at like, you know, I'm actually okay today.
Like it's all, it's all good, you know, and I've made it to this exact moment. Okay. So what makes me think I'm not gonna get through this moment or to the next moment. Okay. You know what I mean? Yeah.
Brenda: So do you think about that? Like, um, I think about that sometimes especially like, I'll be, I got a Peloton, so I'm on a Peloton and I'm thinking I cannot.
Ride this freaking bike, five more minutes, like I'm gonna die. And then I think of what I went through for those five years with my son. And I'm like, what am I thinking? Of course I can make it through five minutes. Do you go through that? Just having, like, knowing everything that you went through and I'm sure the, the horrible things that you experienced and the trauma and all of that, when you're facing something today, maybe it's like a business issue or, you know, your production line goes down or something like that.
Do, do you contrast those things and think, come on, man, you can, you can get through this.
Jeremy: Yeah, absolutely. It's funny. Say I production cause I'm in production this week and um, I've had to be a lot more hands on than I thought I was gonna have to be because things went wrong. Right. And, um, I was in the moment where I was.
I think I'm done. Like, I, I literally, I was like, oh yeah, cuz it's gonna, it's gonna cost me money and it's all this stuff. And I was just like, I just, I don't know if I can like absorb this, you know what I mean? Like, and, and want to continue to, to, to do again, you know? Yeah. And again, and, um, but I also knew that like, I can be dramatic at times, you know?
And, um, I knew that like in that moment I was making it out to be a lot worser than it was. Right. So I, I did know that and I called some people and I just told the situation, talked about it, you know, and they really didn't provide any solution outside of like, just being there to hear me bent. Right. But what they did say is like, you'll figure it out.
You always. You know, and I'm like, okay, trust in that. And just to be like, so, you know, I, I knew, I knew myself well enough to know that, like my initial reaction isn't always the right reaction. You know what I mean? Yes. So I kind of just like, let the dust settle a little bit and kind of got a better grasp on what was actually happening.
And you know, it wasn't that bad and it's, it's gonna end up turning out. Okay. Uh, I lost not as much money as I thought I was, so, which is a plus , you know? Yeah. Yeah. So it's um, well, I forget the question you asked me, led me to
Brenda: like the contrast of like. what you've been through. Cause I think it's in a way and my son says this too, that it's such a blessing.
He's like, you know, I'll be in line at burger king and I see people are so agitated because it's taking forever to get your hamburger at burger king. And it's like, yeah, really? Like after everything that you've been through, it just seems like you have such and I, and I have this as well. Like it's pretty hard to frazzle me because I'm like, eh, you know, once you've looked at death and you've, you've been there, you've overdosed, like you've been at that point kind of.
That for me, it's just put so much in perspective that I, I just don't worry about a lot, cause I'm like, well, I don't know, at least at least no one's dead. That's kind of my bar. And so I just wonder if that's something that can be a tool that helps you, if you're in a place of frustration or, you know, feeling discouraged or whatever, that you can look to that and say, okay, well it could be this.
Or if that's, or if there's other, you know, tools that you use, cuz I think one thing that we go through is as parents and, and not just parents, but even siblings is you see somebody struggle like, you know, maybe your mom or dad or your brothers see you struggling and they start worrying like, you know, what's gonna, is he gonna go back to using like, we, we run through all these movies in our head about what's gonna happen, but you have tools that you go to when, when stuff like that happens.
And I wonder what some of your, like go-tos are, whether it's looking back and reflecting on the perspective or calling, like you've said, calling a friend or calling somebody to help give you that like grounding of where you are right now.
Jeremy: Yeah, for sure. You know, there are a couple things to come to mind when you like, say as like, I mean, I, I pick up the phone, right.
You know, I call my sponsor. Yeah. We don't call who I don't call enough, so I'm not gonna sound out, you know, like I'm like this perfect guy. Like I don't call him enough, but like my fr you know, I call my friends a lot and I, you know, I talk to talk to them who are in the program and stuff. And you, that, that always seems to help me get, get myself outside of myself, which leads me to the next thing that I think helps in situations like that is.
Or tools like is awareness. Awareness is like very key and mindfulness. Right. I, I know I've been through enough of my life to know, and I've done enough work on myself to know that, like I am my worst enemy. Like the only person that's gonna take me out is myself. The world has very, had done, has done very little, if anything, to harm to harm.
Right? Yeah. Yeah. You know, like we said, life is life, right? Yeah. But it's like, It doesn't really have anything to do with you. We are, we are own worst enemy and it's like all these things that I think that are the worst things that's gonna happen. And that it's like, what is that statistic? What is it like nine things that nine outta 10 things that you think are gonna happen about?
Like they never happen. Right. Right. You know, and I know that like, so back to your thing, when you say like being in a line in burger king, it's like, I am already so good at fucking with myself that, why am I gonna let all this external shit fuck. right. Yeah, exactly. You know, like I need to like mitigate the amount of stress I'm gonna have in my life is I already contributed enough stress to my life that I'm just not gonna let some asshole will cut me.
Right. Add to that.
Brenda: Yeah. You don't get to add to my stress quotion for the day.
Jeremy: yeah. Plus I'm powerless over that. Why am I gonna like, give it power by getting mad at it? It shit happens. I'm like, okay.
Brenda: Yeah. What does, what does mindfulness and awareness look like to you kind of from a practical standpoint?
Is it like, literally, do you have a meditation practice or I'm just curious what it, what, what, how that manifests itself in your day to day life?
Jeremy: You know, I'd like to say that I meditate every day for 30 minutes. I don't, I don't, I meditate at times and that is something that is actually very difficult for me as meditation.
And it's difficult for a lot of people, but like what it causes inside of me when I. Actually, I, I tend to leave meditation feeling worse than I did when I entered it. Oh yeah. That's not good. , it's, it's an anxiety disorder type thing that I have. Yeah. And it's, it's, you know, I've, I've, I've seen a lot of meditation people and I've, you know, I've been in therapy and like, you know, it's like, it's okay.
Like, you don't have to meditate. Like there's other forms of meditation. Yeah. Right. You know? So like writing can be a form of meditation for me. It's like actually like understanding, alright, what am I feeling? Are these feelings? Like what? Cause 'em, it's okay to feel them. Like they will pass it's all right.
Like, but I get this like five alarm in my head that goes off and it's like, You know, panic, panic, or whatever it is. And it's kind of just like having awareness of like my body what's going on in it, getting outside of it too. It's like getting outside of my head, like why I pick up the phone all on people.
Cause that helps me be aware of like and mindful, you know, it's like, okay, I'm press, I'm having a conversation with this person. I'm not in my head thinking about whatever chaos I've created in there.
Brenda: So I'm glad that you said that because when people have this idea of like, oh, well I can't do that. I can't meditate.
Um, I think it can leave people feeling like. I'm doing it wrong or, you know, I need to do things a certain way. One of the other things that really, um, I remember from our last conversation was you had had, I don't know what had gone on, but you had had a really rough day the day before we talked and you were talking about vulnerability and how that's, you know, a really big piece of you mm-hmm
And I think that is for so many people, when I do these podcasts with people in recovery, vulnerability comes up a lot. And I just wonder when you started to realize that that was okay, because when you think about like, when I see young people and all the, the kids of the moms and dads that I work with, it is not cool to be vulnerable when you're like in, in high school or, you know, in your early twenties.
Um, it feels like there's a lot of trying to get away from that. So I'm just curious when you started to kind of embrace being vulnerable and. How that's either, I don't know, added to your life, or what has that done for you to be okay with that? Cuz it seems like a really big piece of
Jeremy: you. Yeah. You know, I don't like it didn't come to me until later in life.
Right. Until I realized that being vulnerable was a strength. I still have to remind myself every day to be vulnerable. You know, it's not an automatic thing. Mm-hmm um, it can't be in certain situations, you know, but for things that are really. Bothering me, you know, um, or that are on my mind. I tend to, as we all do, like live in fear in a lot of ways.
Right. You know? Yeah. And, um, my fear came from not really feeling like I was able to be vulnerable growing up. Um, not because my parents didn't love me. They loved doesn't very much, but you know, they're operating with their own set of shit, you know? Yeah. So, but I didn't know, as a kid, you know, it's like feeling a certain way was like, it didn't align with like how they wanted it, me to feel.
Or if it was a reflection of like how they made me feel, it kind of was like put back on me to make me feel like my feelings were wrong. Right. Mm-hmm , you know, or yelled at and like, yeah. So I was like, you know what, fuck that, like, I'm not going down that road again. Right. like if vulnerability equals no, you know?
Yeah. And so I, I just, again, drugs and alcohol. To mute all that provided the relief I needed. So my, my lack of vulnerability, or like my resistance to vulnerability is often just is stemmed from fear and the fear of being judged. Yeah. And, uh, shame, like shame for feeling how I'm feeling. Um, also the, that comparison thing that I, um, came it's like, you know, oh, I'm 40 years old and I have 15 years of sobriety.
Like I think because I perceive other people this way, I perceive like, whatever it is, I think I should not feel this way. Right. So therefore, I don't want people to perceive me that I feel this way. So I'm not gonna tell anybody about it because right. I should be a certain way. Right. And when it's like, I've, I have to let that go all the time.
Right. And it's not like I'm like doing this. Fucking bear knuckle brawl to do that. It's not like I'm like struggling all the time, dude, but it's more of just that reminder. It's like, just tell how you feel, you know? Yeah. And, and nine times outta 10, if we're gonna stick with that, I'd say, you know, people come up to me after and they're like, yeah, really, man, thank you for sharing.
I need to hear that shit. I'm struggling with the same thing. And it's like a dude that has, you know, more time than me, or is older than me or, or, or less, it doesn't matter, you know, to someone's like, thank you for like, thank you something real. I'm like, eh, you're welcome, dude. Like, I'm glad my pain can tell you, you know, um, I just know that when I, when I do tell the truth, like I'm just more a and when I say truth, it's like vulnerable because to me that's.
My truth. Right. You know? Yeah. I, I just feel, I feel relieved after that anxiety and everything kind of goes away and that, like, that noise gets quieter in
Brenda: my head. Yeah. You know? Well, and I think you realize, oh, like nothing happened like the world didn't implode, I didn't turn green. Like, we're all still here.
You know, when you, when you actually are vulnerable and you share something, you realize like, oh, nothing, nothing in general, nothing bad happened. Right. I mean, sometimes people will be weird and funky, but mm-hmm, , uh, for the most part, like you said, people are really appreciative. And I just, I wonder if that's, of course you don't, you don't have the female perspective, but I wonder if that's harder for guys than for women, it feels like we, we can tend to be a little bit more like.
Open to that. But I think our culture for guys is not, is like not cool, man. Sure. Especially if you're in high school, especially if you're early in college being open and vulnerable like that, just like, no. So that, that feels like, because what I see, I think we talked about this last time just a little bit is I see just this pattern of kiddos who are highly resourceful, highly intelligent, highly sensitive, incredibly like they're EMPA, if you, I don't totally know the definition of that word, but I hear it a lot.
Just, I think. Empathic you feel? Yeah. You just feel the, the world more heavily. Yeah. You're a
Jeremy: little more, you feel everybody's energy too. Yeah. Yeah. Like hyper aware. Yeah. Hypersensitive to other people's emotions, you know? And so that's me just pick up on every slight little thing, which creates some anxiety in me, but, um, it's just like, it's overstimulating, you know, sometimes.
Yeah.
Brenda: But it's a gift too, right? Like
Jeremy: it's yeah. I have ability to read people, you know? Yeah. And like, I can use that to my advantage in a way where like, I can protect myself, you know, or, but yeah, it's a gift and, and a curse type thing. It's about ma knowing how to manage it and, um, right. Filter
Brenda: yourself, I think, growing into it because I saw, like, I saw that with my son when he was very young, I was like, whoa, right.
Something is interesting about this kid. And then, you know, as he grew, it was like, oh, he can take in the world. Like he takes it all in, but he doesn't know what to do with it. Now that it's inside of him, cuz he's just like seven years old now as a, as a young adult, he can, he has those tools. But I, I do see that as a pattern in so many of these kids that turn to substances and I'm guessing it's just because they work so well to mute that onslaught of you know, of the world.
And then if you add in the social media come like the world's enough, and then you add this constant feed of social media to a, a young person like that. It's just so much.
Jeremy: Yeah. It's almost like the cards are stacked against them type stuff. Yeah. Yeah. It seems like that it is. I mean, it is so much yeah, really, really is.
And it's it's and if the parents out there listening, you know, if your kid is like that, like, um, it's a lot, it's, I'm sure it's a lot to deal with for me. I would never tell anybody like what to do or how to do it and stuff like that. But I know like what worked for me is, uh, when people are nonjudgmental of how I feel or can understand, can understand, even though they don't feel the same way that I feel that like the feelings I have are still real to me.
Right. Yeah. And can be empathetic towards that. So.
Brenda: Yeah. So not saying you're too sensitive.
Jeremy: yeah. You're uh, which is something that like, was said to me all the time, you know what I mean? Yeah. You're too sensitive. You're too, this duh, it's like, all right. It's like, I'm gonna numb myself with some Oxycontin right now, so thank you exactly.
Maybe it make me less sensitive, you know, like yeah. You know, we are, and that's what kind of led me to like the whole social media ran. I went on earlier on the episode, uh, is like, you know, we're all different. We really are all different. We're all so similar too. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, but we are all different in a way.
Where're like, some people were just late bloomers, you know, or some people like struggle with certain things that other people don't and, um, yeah, it's just better just to like, accept that. Like we are all our own. Individuals playing with their own set of cards, you know, life and relationships are about like figuring out how to.
Work with that, you know? Right. Like you can work with other people. Shit. Yeah.
Brenda: Well, and accept, like you talked about earlier with accepting yourself and just saying, okay, this is, this is who I am. This is how I am. And mm-hmm, , um, that's gotta be the first step because if you, if you can't get there, then you're just constantly in this like frenetic world of trying to be whoever the other person wants you to be, or whoever this, the, you know, Instagram feed wants you to be, or right.
The girlfriend or the boyfriend or whoever. And it's just exhausting, like. Totally exhausting, which is it is exhausting. I will tell you when you get into your fifties, you will even be happier, cuz you're just like, I don't care about anything. right. It's just going to be me. So that's what you have to look forward to in your next decade.
But, um, I would love to just hear a quick update on, I know you guys have a, um, scholarship for sober living mm-hmm , which I would love to hear like how that's going and what's next for you and mot and, and all of that
Jeremy: 5% of our, um, sales go to sober living scholarship fund. So that's contributed to a hypering sober living, which is over here in Los Angeles.
Uh, ultimately I'd like to be able to like extend that, not to just one particular mm-hmm sober living, but to kind of be like all encompassing, you know what I mean? Like. Award it to however, you know what I mean? Right. Just this person or, you know, if it's like they're in Indiana or something, you know?
Right. I mean, it's like work with that particular sober living and stuff like that. But right now, as I'm like still small, you know, it's just easier to keep it with one yeah. One sober living, but you know, it's going, it's fueled by sales, so that's great. I always tell people, so if you're listening, buy my shit, buy the shirts yeah.
You know, buy, buy the shirts and, you know, it's, it's small, you know, the fun right now because I'm small and I'm continuing to grow, but as I grow and, um, you know, so will the scholarship. Yeah. And that's kind of the goal. That's awesome.
Brenda: That's so great. Yeah. And the shirts are amazing. Cause I ordered 'em for all my guys in my life and oh, thank you really, really nice shirts.
Like, it's hard to imagine. Like how could this shirt be really nice? I'm like, I don't know how to explain it. They're really nice.
Jeremy: thank
Brenda: you. Yeah, the material's incredible. Like, I mean, I like all that kind of stuff, so,
Jeremy: yeah. And the cut, you know, and it's funny you say that, uh, because like this week I was, I've been just in the throes of production.
Um, like I thought to myself, like, I'm pretty beat today. Like I'm taking it somewhat easy today because I'd just been in it. And I'm like, man, if people only knew what goes into actually, right. Just like making a t-shirt right. You know? And they, people like, man, my t-shirts are like something, you know, around 60 bucks.
Right. And they're like, that's expensive. I'm like, bro, you're getting that on the cheap you have no idea what it takes to make that thing, you know? And for me, like sure, you can buy a shitty t-shirt that doesn't really take much to go into it. But for me it's. The fit, the material, the dye, all of it, the sizing it's like, it's, it's very, I'm very like, everything has to be perfect, you know?
Yeah. And, um, so I'm glad you like the t-shirts, you know, it shows
Brenda: in the end product. It really does so well, thank you. Um, if, if you're listening, I'll put a link in the show notes to malt, M O L T. Um, and, and all I remember you saying last time, too, that all your models are, are in recovery. I would love to just hear, like, how does, how do you think that impacts them when they.
get to model your shirts and, you know, they're, they show up in your social media ads. Like, what's that like for them?
Jeremy: Um, it's cool for them. Some of 'em like get annoyed because like I ask them all the time , you know, , you know, like, come on, you know, come on. And, uh, no, it I'm teasing, but like, you know, I think it just kind of goes into like that service element.
Right. You know, like all my friends are in, like, I'm an AA, I'm in a 12 step program. Right. Mm-hmm um, and they're, you know, the 12 step is to be a service, right? Yeah. And that's kind of like the foundation, so it's kind of like. I kind of have the inside track on something good. It's like, Hey man, uh, you modeled for me and it's like, you're not allowed to say no because right.
You gotta be of service. well, step man. Yeah, exactly. No, I don't, I don't use that. I just, you know, my friend they're happy to help and they think it's cool when they're just scrolling. All of a sudden they seeing ads, you know, they're like, oh wow, that's me. You know, like that's so cool. Yeah. So, um, I'm grateful to have really good friends.
Um, you know, and they're good looking too, so that helps. Well, thank you. Yeah. They're thank you.
Brenda: Yeah. I'm like, these are like all really good looking guys in recovery. Is this like some special club that you get to belong
to?
Jeremy: If you're yeah, no, I think it's just LA recovery and none of those guys are models.
That's
Brenda: awesome. Super cool. Yeah. Wow. Well, what else do you wanna speak into the world before we wrap up?
Jeremy: I do have some, uh, like introducing a hoodie too, my wine. Nice. And, um, it's an amazing hoodie. Of course, it's gonna be an amazing, I mean, no, it's like really fits like on point. It's all, it's all made in America and that'll be available in the next week or two.
Nice. Um, so you wanna sign up for my newsletter and if you don't follow me on social media, please, uh, please follow me just cuz I don't like social media, so I don't Jeremy
Brenda: won't be there, but
Jeremy: you can follow. I'll be there. You no, like I post some stuff, you know, but I know you do. Um, yeah, I don't know. And it's as like a whole, like I just appreciate anybody listening right now.
It's even like listen to you, you know? And to me and to like, you know, I, I understand the struggle because like I struggle all the time. Yeah. You know? Um, yeah. So, and it's okay to struggle and I think, um, community is important, you know
Brenda: too. Yeah. Well, I think it's, it's really good for, this is why I wanted to do a follow up too is just because.
I think it's good for parents, especially to know that this is a lifelong thing. It, it's not like, I mean, it's kind of, I feel like it's like cancer where yes, it's in, it's in remission, but it's in remission. It's not gone. So mm-hmm, , it's something that I think we need to be aware of. Cuz most of us wanna be like, oh cool.
My, my son or my daughter went to rehab and now it's three years later and they they're good. And so we're good. Right? Like we're done. We're done with that. Yeah. And it, and I don't think that that's true. And I remember you talking last time about recovery being very different from sobriety and mm-hmm that, it's just something I think we need to be aware of that.
our kids are gonna continue to, to have challenges in life and mm-hmm , they have to use these tools over and over and over and over. And like you said, like drugs and alcohol, aren't the big threat for you at the moment. And. Hopefully they never will be again, but there's other stuff. So, yeah, it's just a really good reminder that, um, we need to, to have that in our minds and just be empathetic.
That that is a reality,
Jeremy: you know? Yeah. I mean drugs and alcohol, aren't the problem. Right. You know, they were a solution solution, a bad one. They're a bad solution. Right, right. Um, but it's about like what causes me to wanna use drugs and alcohol, you know, and to, to just like chime in on what, like echo on what you said.
It's like, I come from the school where I subscribe, where I like. it's a disease. And, uh, I believe I was born this way because from where I can remember, I've kind of always been that way from, yeah, I was a little kid, but yeah, it is a life. It is a lifelong, lifelong thing. Like I know that although if I do and who knows, like my sobriety is one day at a time, I wanna be sober for the rest of my life.
Yeah. But I don't know what life's gonna hold for me. I can tell you this though. I'm making conscious decision. If I ever do pick up again and know that I'm picking up, and I know that like, this is not gonna be good for me. Right, right. Like this is not going to be good for me because it will be off to the races.
Yeah. So,
Brenda: well, we don't want that. So just focus on those hoodies.
Jeremy: exactly focus on hoodies and everything else. Um, but. It's a lifelong thing. You know, it's a gift though, you know, we get, we get this amazing community yeah. Of each other, you know, and we get the gift itself through it. Yeah. So
Brenda: beautifully said, beautifully said, yeah.
Okay. That is it for today. If you would like to get the show notes for this episode, you can go to Brenda zane.com/podcast. All of the episodes are listed there and you can also find curated playlists there. So that's very helpful. You might also wanna download a free ebook. I wrote it's called hindsight three things.
I wish I knew when my son was misusing drugs. It'll give you some insight as to why your son or daughter might be doing what they are. And importantly, it gives you tips on how to cope and how to be more healthy through this rough time. You can grab that free from Brenda zain.com/hindsight. Thank you so much for listening.
I appreciate it. And I hope that these episodes are helping you stay strong and be very, very good to yourself. And.