from heroin needle to sewing needle, giving back through recovery with Jeremy Melloul, MOLT Clothing
Host: Brenda Zane, brenda@brendazane.com
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Guest: Jeremy Melloul, MOLT Clothing and MOLT Afflictions podcast
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Transcript:
Speakers: Brenda Zane, Jeremy Melloul
Brenda 01:44
It's so good to spend some time here with you today. If you are listening in real time, it's December. And for many of us that means holidays, and potentially some added stress and anxiety in the mix. So I'm really glad that you're here you're taking some time to learn and grow. And just exhale. Today I get to share one of my all time favorite kinds of episodes. It is a recovery story with elements of entrepreneurship giving back and also has a lot of insights for parents who are scratching your heads at things that your kids are doing. You are going to hear how My guest went from having his first experience with alcohol at his brother's Bar Mitzvah at 11 years old to being prescribed Vicodin. After his wisdom teeth were removed at 17 and progressing down a path to basically living off of Twizzlers, peanut butter cups and heroin. Not exactly what his hard working immigrant parents had envisioned for their middle son. You'll hear how someone goes from there to being a successful entrepreneur, repairing family relationships and giving back through his business and day to day life. Jeremy Melloul is CEO and founder of MOLT, a clothing company that is also a cause you can find his clothing and learn a lot more about this incredible company at wearmolt.com, And he also has podcast called MOLT Afflictions. And you can find that in your podcast player.
Brenda 03:28
And because Jeremy is such an awesome guy, he is giving hope stream listeners a 20% discount on his clothing just in time for the holidays. So you can head over to the shownotes there's a link to them in your podcast player. Or you can go to Brendazane.com/podcast, find this episode and then grab the code there. And because we have so much to cover, and it was such an amazing conversation, I'm going to just jump right in because I know you are really going to enjoy this very real and very enlightening conversation with Jeremy Melloul.
Brenda 04:07
Jeremy, welcome to Hopestream. I'm so excited to talk with you today. I love love doing recordings with people who are in recovery who have these amazing stories. So thanks for making the time. I know you're super busy business owner podcasts are all the things so thanks for being with me.
Jeremy 04:25
Of course, thanks for having me. It's really, really a pleasure to be here. I love what you do. And I love what your podcast is all about. So it's really an honor to be able to be here and to hopefully, say some things that people will resonate with or might help with. I don't know, I don't know what comes out of my mouth. So I'm not liable. Disclosure. Now I'm just teasing, but I love it. Yeah, it's a pleasure to be here. So thanks for having me.
Brenda 04:51
Yeah, of course. Let's just hear a little bit about who you are what you're doing today, and then we'll get into some of the backstory that brought you there but just Give us a quick look at who you are and what you do today what life looks like for you today as much as
Jeremy 05:13
well, my name is Jeremy Melloul, and I'm an alcoholic. I'm very used to saying that actually, because I am actually a 12 stepper, I do go to AA, when I say an alcoholic I was, you know, I just say that, because that's what we say. But I was actually a junkie addicted to heroin. And that was almost 14 years ago, I'll have 14 years God willing in three weeks on November 21. Nice. Yeah. Thank you, thank you so much. And it's been a very, very tumultuous ride. For me, recovery has not been a breeze. I'll get into that a little later. But recovery has given me the opportunity to just given me opportunities in general has given me the opportunities to change my life to to go after the life I do want.
Jeremy 06:03
With that being said, I started a company a clothing brand called MOLT. It's a word, it's actually what animals do insects and birds and stuff, they molt, they shed their skin to make way for new growth. That's been very much my story with substance abuse, addiction and mental health. So I just I wanted to create itself a different kind of clothing brand, right, I wanted to create something that had meaning that was more just about what's on out on the surface, right? What's beneath. Recovery is very important to me, and being of service to people is extremely important to me, and I wanted to incorporate that into my company. So all my models are in recovery, which is great. We put that on Front Street to basically try to have people ask themselves a question of like, where am I at today? Right? What what needs to be gone? Because not everybody does an addict, you know, thank God. But we all have, we all have problems. So, you know, MOLT isn't just for addicts or people in recovery. It's for everybody, because we all have issues and we all have afflictions that we carry that introduce us to who we are right because adversity does that. And we all need to kind of learn and grow from that. And molds kind of represents all of us. We also do a silver lining Scholarship Fund, donate 5% of profits go to that. And then we do service work in local communities. as well. We just help people that need help, like we're going to the midnight mission in a couple of weeks to feed people on skid row and in which is pretty gnarly place. I don't know if you've ever been there.
Brenda 07:41
I have but not to serve food for sure.
Jeremy 07:44
Very intense. So I don't know if I explained myself that well, as far as what I do. Like I'm a very vulnerable guy, or at least I think I need to be because I think that is that is my direct connection to my recovery is because I naturally want to hide, and I want to run. And I want to curl up in a ball and I don't want to lose life. Yeah, you know, and yesterday was a very tough day for me kind of carried over to today. So I feel a little emotional, because I'm a sensitive guy, which is part of being an addict. You know, it's not just for addicts. Again, I'm just going to speak from my experience, but like all the alcohol attacks that I know, we're extremely sensitive. And it's hard to deal with our emotions. So for me, it's like, a little like shell shock from yesterday. And it was an emotional day for me and just waking up, you know, it was hard to get out of bed this morning. The world seems blue right now to me. So just want to share that give listeners a little insight as to where I'm at right now on this exact second. So Well,
Brenda 08:46
I appreciate that. Because and I usually do and I and I forgot to ask you because we were talking about so much stuff before we hit record. But I like to ask people, How are you in this moment? Because this moment is different than five minutes ago or like yet, like you said yesterday?
Jeremy 09:04
Yeah, you know? Thanks for asking that question, actually. Because when you ask that question how I like felt students hear me now and it's almost like, do I want to cry right now? You know, you totally can, you know, and it's like, how am I like, I'm okay. I'm good. Like, on a macro level, my life is great. I have a lot of things going for me, you know, of people who care about me, have a family allows me have a company and I'm building you know, I have money in my bank account. Now I have all these things. Sometimes it doesn't matter, right? We get inside and when we experience the way we experience life, and mental health has always been an issue for me. It's been depression, anxiety disorder and panic disorder. And I mean, it's all the same crazy. I just listed three because that's what I was diagnosed by functioning on it on a daily basis is like It's not all thriving, right? A lot of time it's surviving. It's just it's pushing through like today, I'm gonna have to push through today. And that's okay. Because tomorrow's another day, like, wake up, and I can feel better. But what the most important thing about all that is I don't get high. Right? I don't get high on it don't get drunk. I pick up the phone and call people in the program, I go to a meeting. Last night I spoke at a meeting, someone asked me to speak and they shared and it was completely vulnerable and honest. And people respond to that. So I'm going to bear my soul with you today. I
Brenda 10:34
love it. I love it. No, it's true. Because and I'm wondering how you figure out how you feel in the moment. Do you know what I mean? Like when you wake up? What are the cues that your body gives you of like, here's where we are today.
Jeremy 10:49
It's always in my chest, right? You know, it's like my heart feels there, like anxieties. Usually, there's tightness to some general like, cloud in my brain, you know, overall, super sensitive.
Brenda 11:05
So if you wake up, and that's what's going on, what's your next step?
Jeremy 11:11
Well, when I wake up, I always do the same thing every day, I have a morning routine. So I wake up, and I pray. And I make my bed immediately. And I get in a cold shower, which is amazing. I've been doing it for years, I really swear by it, then coffee, and I read I read the Bible Old New Testament. Yeah, and then I do some writing, do journaling. And I text my sponsees the thought of the day from daily reflections or daily reflections and five things that were grateful for. So I have a gratitude list. And that's pretty much what I do. And that actually helps because it forces me to, to get out of myself and to really get into action, because getting into action is so important for people in recovery. Because again, like I said, earlier, it's very natural for me to want to just hide run away from life, even at 14 years. It's it's still there. And it's we do recover. But I will always be an addict and alcoholic and that might be hard to hear for some people listening. And that's okay, though, for me, right? Because it's given me so much. It's given me community, it's given me the sense of self, it's given me God, it's given me the opportunity to help others. It's actually a gift. You know, if you can survive, if you can survive getting through addiction, and you can get into recovery, it becomes a gift.
Brenda 12:40
Totally, it really does. Totally. Well, that thanks for sharing your morning routine, because I think that's something that is such a key cornerstone for so many people that gets overlooked a lot. I love the combination that you have of quiet time with yourself, but then also reaching out to other people, which I'm sure is as much for you as it is for them. Because what a blessing for them to get a text from you like, Hey, good morning, here's, you know, here's the day. So I just love that it just sounds like a really nice kind of package.
Jeremy 13:13
It is a nice package, you know, but reaching out to people as is everything. For me. I think it's very, it's very important for people in recovery as well, to have a community because we naturally feel alone. Always.
Brenda 13:26
Yeah, well, that's all incredible for the parents. So the people who listen to hopestream are mostly parents or caregivers, or, you know, they have somebody that they love, most often a child who is struggling, they might be experimenting, you know, the mom who just was like, Oh, I just found a little bag of weed and my kids backpack all the way through to you know, kids living in active addiction. So I just love to hear kind of your story. And you can start wherever you want to start about what you went through. And, and what that was like for you kind of in, in whatever degree of detail that works for you. Just to give people an idea of what your story is. Yeah, absolutely.
Jeremy 14:09
I'd love to. So for me, it was because I was like 11 years old. And prior to that I always kind of felt off. Like I remember spending a lot of time by myself. And I just was always in my head. And I never was really very forthcoming about how I feel. I but I didn't know that was the only normal I knew. So therefore, you know, I had nothing to compare it to. But I remember my brother's Bar Mitzvah. I was 11 years old. And I saw one of those like plastic cups with like, the wet napkin around it, you know, like with a half drink and drink it. And it was a screwdriver, I remember and I just kind of chugged it remembers being so like better and I burned my chest and I was like, why would anybody ever do this? And then like, I don't know, a minute later, it hit me. That's when I knew that I wasn't normal because It relieved me. I felt relief.
Jeremy 15:04
And it's almost like I felt whole in a sense, you know? So it's like, holy shit. Like, I was not feeling okay before but now I have this to know me now like, okay, so, you know, it was a progression now wasn't like 11 years old and the next day I had a needle in my arm No, I was like, Okay, I think about it and then like, I would do things like we cut off the air that oxygen to us, you know, to like pass out, wake up and get that tingle and then like sneak in a fridge and like, oh, the whipped cream and like get that, you know, nitrous hit. And it was just little things like that.
Jeremy 15:37
But it wasn't until like 13, 14 where I started smoking weed in sixth grade. And it's kind of like you need to think about it like a sixth grade waking up to go to school have to lean out of my bathroom window and smoke weed out of a coke can that I scraped the panel, then I take my mom's Cornhuskers to poke holes on it so I can smoke weed out of it. you know, at like in sixth grade, or seventh grade or whatever. Yeah, it doesn't matter. like it'd be able to like just you have to smoke weed just to get the courage to get to go to school to hop on a bus with other kids.
Jeremy 16:15
It's like sad, you know, really is you think about it. It's like, and what's sad is like, I'm not the only one you know, there's so many people out there that experienced that that don't feel okay inside their body. So yeah, so I just smoked weed for a while I got you know, it's causing troubles ever good student, then like high school came around, it was more of like a party culture. I had drank before but like it was never like all about it. But then like, I don't know, came ninth grade. I was like, I didn't like smoking weed anymore game made me paranoid and give me anxiety. So I stopped the 90s drank all the time. And I was the guy that was the guy in high school to get booze to know where the parties were, I became that guy. That was what I was known for is the guy.
Jeremy 16:56
So being very resourceful, and figuring out how to get my fix. And then it was around like, 17, 18 I got my wisdom teeth taken out. And I had never had painkillers for but I needed it because I was in a lot of pain. And that's when I was prescribed Vicodin. And I remember the moment I took what I couldn't, was that moment for me. It was a white light moment. It was a I have arrived. And it was like if I just had an endless supply of this, I'll be okay. Life will be okay. It was like my medication. Yeah, you know, it, it really just, it took all these like, ups and downs that I had everything and it just needed all of them and made them level and I felt normal that felt whole and I was also numb and then just went to college. natural progression there. You know, just Vicodin, Percocet weren't strong enough. Ooh, Oxycontin. What is this? Let's get that OxyContin, you know, that's very powerful, very potent stuff.
Jeremy 17:56
But there came a point where it became really expensive. I couldn't afford it. So heroin was was there you know, someone's like, what am I have? Like, I'll never do heroin. I'm not a junkie you know, yada yada. Like, well, when you're desperate, you know you don't have any money and someone has it. So I started off by snorting it and then my friends like this the shoot it like it's so good. Oh my god, right. So I shot that and once that happened, that's you know, you don't go back from that. And I spent a lot of time in Baltimore some from DC area. And that's where I got all my drugs and I almost died on a street in my car Odine my friend was like, do your eyes are in the back your head like that? But like somehow you woke up I was like, Okay, well
Jeremy 18:44
let's do some more. You know, the insanity mind right insanity mind. Then I was on the verge of being homeless and I overdosed. And I woke up in the hospital at like, three in the morning all alone, and no one around and I remembered that moment. I remember a white light moment with with taking Vicodin right, but I had another white light moment. And I was sitting there is one of the most beautiful moments I've ever experienced in my entire life because it's just so ethereal and the air was like, I felt like weightless. In a sense. I could just the air fall my skin was like you know, hospital, typically always cold. But it was during the morning the lights were off, and I can hear like a distant murmur at the nurse's station down the hall. And it was really just me and God at that moment. That was a moment where like, I didn't realize it was God at the moment. Right but like looking back, that's what it was because I was an atheist. I didn't like believe in God or anything. I remember just being like, that's it that I surrender, you know, and that's like, was 14 almost 14 years ago today almost.
Jeremy 19:51
I kept getting emotional thing. You know, because what I had to want it and I did and I went to rehab in Hazleton, so if anyone says Can I send a kid to rehab? Or a friend or anybody needs it? Hazelden was an amazing place. It's 28 days I went in at 135 pounds, I was emaciated about 5-11. So I was so skinny, I was living off a Twizzlers and peanut butter cups and heroin. So that was my diet. And 22 days later, I came on 195 pounds. I didn't fit anything more. Like, yeah, it was, I mean, people were like, wow, it was like that your money? Were just in the I mean, it was a cafeteria-style, like, where are you putting in like, I don't know, I hadn't eaten in like, a year.
Jeremy 20:40
Yeah, so I came home. And I went to NA- Narcotics Anonymous, because that's what was available to me in DC. That was like a big fellowship. And I identified as a heroin addict. So I went to Narcotics Anonymous, you started working a program. And then I met a girl. And she was in the rooms as well in the program. And I kind of stopped going to meetings somewhat like around my one year. And I just, I didn't really grasp the concept of being sober. And, and being in recovery, those are two very different things. So I was just sober. And I was like, I don't want to go back to there, I'm never going to use again. So it was running on self will.
Jeremy 21:19
And, but what we call in the program is like I was dry. And dry means like, you know, you're not, you're not wet, you're not drinking, you're not getting high, you're driving, you don't have any solution, you don't have any solution at all, and all the things that have caused you or caused you in the past, the want to use are still there. You know, they just come out and manifest in other areas, you know, whether it's sex or money, you know, video games, whatever it is, anger, outbursts, depression, anxiety, all these things are still there. And if they're not treated, they're going to be there. And they're going to run right in your life. And for me, they did and about six years ago, I had a mental nervous breakdown. That was the gnarliest thing I've ever had in my entire life or shattering. I don't wish that on like anybody. And I was dry during that time. And you know, and I'm still recovering from that. That's how bad it was.
Jeremy 22:15
So and then I finally found my way back into the rooms out here in LA, where I'm located in out here a is like, basically the 12 step program out here. And I found solution. I work the steps at a community of people, that meetings, I didn't feel alone. It gave me life. And it's it sounds cliche, but it saved my life. And it continues to save my life. So that's, that's me in a nutshell. Now I'm living my life as a sober man. And doing the best I can. I tried to do good to everybody. My to myself. And there are tough times and good times. But the tough times don't compare to my best times while I was high. So a tough times Silver's are far better than my best times. Hi.
Brenda 23:03
Right. So interesting. Well, there's like 4 million questions I have about all of that.
Jeremy 23:11
And you can interrupt me sometimes I tend to be a little, you know, a little out of it today. So just, you know, say, Hey, wake up.
Brenda 23:19
Come on. No, it's all good, because I like to hear the flow. So I'm so curious if you go back to that 13, 14. So you're in school, you're young you're using? Are you realizing at that time, like there might be something wrong? Because Are you seen other friends who are also getting high before school? Or like, what was the thought process when you are so young and using substances on a regular basis?
Jeremy 23:46
I can't really answer your question, because I don't think I ever really went back to that moment to ask myself that question as an adult. So thank you. I remember my friends. Some of my friends didn't smoke weed, but they weren't like, no one was as hardcore as I wasn't anything. I remember. Like, they'd be like, Yeah, I was like, come on this morning. like, damn, Jay. You know, they call me Jay. He'll be like, smokin up or whatever. But I remember like me feeling cool, you know, but like, also feeling like, a loser the same time, you know, like me feeling prideful, because, like, I'm the only one doing it. And so I felt unique in that sense. And I felt like, you know, this is what I'm good at. Right? Like, because I can rock it hard. But I also felt like a loser because I just mess up in school and I pissed away in education. No, I actually consider myself to not be educated because of that.
Brenda 24:41
Right? Because you weren't really that present for most of it. Yeah, that was cool. Like, which that's it. That's impressive. Like you actually graduated from high school and got through college. Did you go to college?
Jeremy 24:52
I did.
Brenda 24:54
Wow. See, I think you must be actually like, extra smart if you can do that. And you're also using substances or the whole thing.
Jeremy 25:02
Yeah, there's just there are many different levels of intelligence. Right? Yeah. And, you know, one can be intelligent without being educated. And I do know that I'm an extremely resourceful person. And that's my addiction. Yeah. Right. Like, yeah. And when addicts and alcoholics get sober, they become their life changes. And they become very successful in a lot of ways, you know, because like, we still have that, like that resourcefulness that's built in, and we figure out how to get things done. And I always figure out a way to get things done. And I figured out how to coach through school. And you know, just get by and do the bare minimum and lean on like, I plagiarized papers in college, you know, and I would just like that cheat. My guy didn't apply myself at all. And in school, except for one year, my senior year, I got like, straight A's, because my, my guidance counselor Jr. was like, Dude, your grades suck. You're not getting into college, you don't increase. You don't get better grades. And I was like, wait, wait, huh? Not College. I'm staying here. No way. The party must continue. I need the college experience. I need to go in just party my ass off. That's literally the thought process. What is the motivation? Yes. But as a yes, kid, I just felt sad to think about that, you know, as a kid that goes into a lot of pain. You know? And I didn't know it. Yeah. You don't have the awareness of it.
Brenda 26:27
Yeah. What was going on? From a family perspective? So you're over here doing this? And what was going on with your parents or whoever you lived with? Like, what was the family dynamic. During that time,
Jeremy 26:40
I have two brothers. I'm the middle child. You might my dad has this was like, right at the height of my dad starting his business, he had a business, my mom worked with him. So they weren't really around, like, the nighttime and you know, my dad would, you know, he was just kind of not really present in a lot of ways because he's so focused on his business, the same with my mom. So my dad is also a Middle Eastern. So I'm half Middle Eastern, North African who was born there. So he's like, Fresh Off the Boat guy, I'm first-generation and they have very different culture. It's not to like, generalize or stereotype or, you know, anybody's Middle Eastern listening, like, not to offend you or anything like that. But like, there is like a very, like, yelling type of culture pointing finger at me. And just like, that's how it was done. You know, I did something wrong as a kid, he got yelled at, you know, and shame is very present in that culture. As a kid, like, for me, the only way I internalize that is to come back. Like I'm bad. That's it, like the people that are supposed to love me the most. Right? And to be my caregivers are angry at me. So that was kind of the environment, you know, they always gave me a lot of love, although they were very loving in jovial people.
Brenda 28:03
So they weren't coming at it from a psychological approach necessarily, like, oh, we see our son is doing these things. He must be in pain, something must be wrong. It was more of a like, get it together, like just a harsher approach than
Jeremy 28:18
absolutely okay. Yeah, he was a harsh approach. He was like, What are you doing? Like, right? Stop fucking up, you know, like, go to school, do your work, you know, it's like, okay, well, like I don't know how to do any of it, and then say, we'll figure it out. So okay, this is how I'm going to figure out when to go get high and my bedroom right now. So figuring it out. And drugs as soon as they found out I was like, messing around with drugs. It was like a very disciplinary type of response. You know, it was more of like, no empathy was just like, you're a loser. You know, you're you're just using drugs you drug. You're a druggie, like, yada yada and it wasn't really received well, my home, not recently, girls, and
Brenda 29:00
they were they trying to, like get you into a treatment program, or was it really just like, You got to get this together? Figure it out?
Jeremy 29:07
Not, not yet. Now, it wasn't until I started getting in trouble with the law on graffitied some bumps off here and there, that like, maybe I should do to like some counseling and some therapy and whatnot. Then when I got into high school, like that kind of all changed. I was more drinking and partying, and my parents were actually okay with that. They were cool with that. So I throw parties in my house in my basement, and I drank, you know, and like, they'd be like, just don't drive. I'm like, Alright, cool. So like, and, you know, I smoked cigarettes at 15 in front of my parents, you know, because that was the culture. My dad, you could smoke when he was like 10. So that was very open, but my other drug use was very private. I didn't let them know that I was like doing pills and stuff like that. And I remember I started going to like towards high school. I had to go to like outpatient treatment and stuff like that. And you know, Honestly, that's just a waste of time and people's money. I think that was for my parents it was because I just I went there with like, the mindset of like, whatever, I gotta get this done so I can just go out and get fucked up again. The box? Yeah, check the box get get the heat off, you know? Yeah,
Brenda 30:17
I'm wondering if you just because this is the question parents always have in the back of their mind is I could be doing something I could you know, I could try to change this. And I'm wondering if you go back to that time, do you think there's anything that your parents could have done to change that trajectory? Or do you think it is what it is? And it has to play out the way it plays out until you decide? It's time to change?
Jeremy 30:45
Yes, and no, I think like, in order to get sober, the person has to want to get sober. And that's really my experience. And people I know the only way it works, but I do think that like I could have possibly got sober sooner had it would have been received a little differently in my household.
Brenda 31:03
Tell me more about that. What do you mean by that?
Jeremy 31:05
What if my parents didn't come at me with like, a disciplinary? Like make me feel like I'm doing something bad rather than sit down and talk to me and be like, are you okay? Is everything going okay with you can tell me anything and I'm not going to get mad. What's going on and if I have an outburst like to be patient, and empathetic if they could have been patient and empathetic for me, you know, to understand that, like, there's a reason why I was using drugs, right? Wasn't just like party, like, if I was using drugs at this extent, I was, as I'm self-medicating.
Jeremy 31:38
And I mean like, I feel like I have something wrong with me. So if my parents didn't reinforce that belief I had about myself, and more encouraged me to talk about what is going on, and didn't come at me with yelling, or whatever it is, who knows, I could have been a little more receptive to like getting sober sooner, could have or you know, could at least reduce the damages. There's a lot of trauma and all that going growing up getting high and, you know, dealing with my parents and things that were said,
Brenda 32:09
Do you think you knew that you were self-medicating at that time? Or was it just this is great. This just makes me feel good?
Jeremy 32:17
Yeah, I know, I had no idea of self-medicating. I just knew that like, it made me feel good. I didn't have the awareness that I was self medicating. This is all hindsight stuff for me, but it made me feel good. And I knew that that's all I wanted to feel all the time was good. Because if I didn't have it, I felt like shit.
Brenda 32:35
Yeah. Well, a couple of things. You've said just I hear over and over and over. One is the minute I tried XYZ fill in the substance. I felt normal. That is so common. That's what my son said, when he first tried smoking weed. He was like, oh, okay, now I feel normal. So that's a common thread that I hear all the time. And also, just this idea that I didn't know, I was self-medicating. So I think it's just when you're so young, you just don't know that. But it's just like, this is helping me cope. And even because I remember asking my son to like, what are you numbing out? What are you trying to fix? What are you, you know, I was trying to have that conversation. And he was like, I'm just having fun. You're overreacting. There's, you know. And so I think it can be really hard for parents who are trying to be empathetic and trying to peel back the onion or whatever it is, when your kid doesn't really understand why they're doing what they're doing.
Jeremy 33:38
Yeah, well, yeah. Because we're little shits, you know, I mean, we don't know, we think we know everything. Yeah, we don't know anything. And that's a great question. That's a great like, you're right, you know, like, had my parents had done that would whatever my response would have been, you know, like, I'm just having fun. Like, I'll be fine. Like, you know, yada yada. Like, again, it's one of those things where it's, it's like, if I'm introduced to my parents, being empathetic about what I'm going through and wanting to help, you know, and for them for me to look at them as like a safe place should I ask for help the time when I feel like I need help. That's a nice feeling to have, right? This safe for me to go to them now. Like you know, once at some point when I do realize like, oh shit, like my beginning out of hand, or I'm sad. I'm depressed once we become aware of our feelings. To know that, like, our parents are there to want to like help.
Brenda 34:35
Yeah, it's a safe door to open if he's a door open.
Jeremy 34:40
For me, it wasn't like I'm not going to that door. I know what happens.
Brenda 34:45
I know what's behind door number two, and
Jeremy 34:48
I'm gonna just continue to do what I'm doing.
Brenda 34:51
Yeah. And then what about your, your relationship with your brothers because they had to have been seen this where they are they right around the same ages. You like, were they witnessing everything that was going on and understand what you were going through?
Jeremy 35:04
No, I mean, my brother's older brother, I like party with a lot. We went out all the time, we were best friends. And I do like, you know, like, like the Coke, you know, when I go out and drink and stuff, but like he didn't really, you know, know, that was like smoking crack in an alley, you know, he didn't know those things until like, later on, like, couple years later, you know, 2425, like, check out really dark for me. And he kind of just started distancing himself from me, and just was a lot more colder. And towards the end, he was just talking to me, he was just like, I’ve ever wrote me off. And my little brother that idolized me, you know, you love me, and he was just sad. And you like, wanted me to be, you know, okay. still does to this day, you know, he just wants me to be okay. Always.
Brenda 35:51
And how are you guys today?
Jeremy 35:53
We're great. We're close. We're very close. I'm close with all my brothers. Because my family, my mom, dad, you know, those relationships got repaired once I got sober.
Brenda 36:01
Yeah, I was gonna ask you about that. So that's amazing to hear. And it was interesting. You said that being sober is not being in recovery. I'm wondering if you can talk about that a little bit more. What does that mean? Because I think oftentimes, as parents, especially for inexperienced with addiction and substance use, we just interchange those words, that it sounds like those are very different things.
Jeremy 36:24
Yeah, being sober for me is like just removing the drugs and alcohol. For me, that's not removing the problem. Drugs and alcohol were solution for me, they were just the worst possible solution, you know, but it was a solution for something that was going on inside of me. And if I just remove those things, something, those things that caused me to want to use are still there, right, this feeling to that. And if I don't have another solution, if I don't get into recovery, where it's a solution based, you know, like, we have contrary action, we get into action, in order to deal with those feelings, his emotions and all those and I'm just sober, you know. But recovery is like it's a constant process. You work on yourself, I still go to meetings. Before the pandemic, I was going to five meetings a week, you know, at sponsees working program, I was doing all that. And you know, still now like picking meetings back up, I go to about three a week and have sponsees work the steps and I am going to have to do it daily brief. Yeah.
Brenda 37:24
So recovery, from what you just said, sounds to me like it's much more active. Like, there's there stuff happening every day versus being sober to me sounds like I'm kind of like white-knuckling every day. Yeah, you're just getting through the day,
Jeremy 37:39
you're basically doing that, you're white-knuckling. And like I said, these things manifest in other areas, whether it be like sex addiction, anger, shopping, money, seeking money, whatever it is, like we will find an outlet for it.
Brenda 37:54
If you had to go. Or if you could go, I'll say if you could go back in a little time machine to meet up with Jeremy at 13. What do you wish you knew when you were 13? That you know now?
Jeremy 38:10
I mean, everything, right? That's like a dream, right? Yeah, I wanted to know what I know. Now and to put it into my 13 year old self? I don't you know, I think I would just tell him that you're going to be okay. You're strong. You got this. So I don't think there's anything I could have said to myself. That would change anything, or if I knew anything. I knew who I was at that age. I didn't know who I was. I mean, but I thought like, I don't need to come good teenager.
Brenda 38:45
I know everything.
Jeremy 38:46
Yeah, you know, and I know you email me that question. I looked at that question. And I was like, and that's a tough one. Or just give myself a hug, honestly. Yeah, sure. You know, like, I love you.
Brenda 38:58
Right? I wonder if we talk a lot about, at least in my community that I have with moms, we talk about helping our kids try to find coping mechanisms other than substances because substances, like you realized work really fast. And really well. Like, it's brilliant, right? It's like, oh, my gosh, so amazing. Of course, then there's downsides to that. So I just I wonder if so you felt uncomfortable? Like you talked about being kind of quiet and alone and not feeling at home in yourself? Oh, I don't want to put words in your mouth. But that's kind of what it sounded like. Which is what I hear from so many parents about what their kids tell them. I just wonder if do you think helping kids to find other ways to say okay, I understand that you feel like that. There's other ways to get that feeling other than alcohol or cocaine or marijuana or whatever it is. That you think that is? Something that we can be doing with kids, or do you think it's just like they're gonna find what they find? You know what I mean? I'm trying to figure out like, is there a way to intervene?
Jeremy 40:12
And maybe like, I know, somebody who had, you know, as a kid and 15 was experiencing, you know, really messing with like fat and all that, like he was one of us is what I say like one of the means, like he was that he was an addict for sure. They tried to thing I took him to meetings and everything. And then they like, sent him away to this outdoor like wilderness type program for troubles and substance abuse, and you know, trouble kids and kids, you have substance abuse issues. And it was like a three month program or something like that. He found like, a lot of interest and love for the outdoors, you know, and he had an outlet. And he also had a community. You know, he had a group of kids who were all in the same boat, and he's still sober. He's still sober to this day. He's 17. Now,
Brenda 41:05
wow, that's hard at 17. Yeah. Because all your peers, I mean, my son went to wilderness as well. And, you know, he came back and didn't have any peers around him that were sober. So that's, I'm, I'm impressed. That's really good.
Jeremy 41:21
So it's all about like, having some kind of outlet solution, I guess, parents want to, like try to encourage any interests as they might have, like, some parents might be dealing with just like a liberal, like, evident noxious kid who just like is a terror, you know, like I was and dish don't want to have anything to do with you. And like, how do you approach that? Like? I don't know, I honestly don't know. But I do know that. Like, we can't help anybody if we don't help ourselves. And I know that Al Anon has helped a lot of people. You know, because it gives them community ism, a sense of like, oh, like, it's not personal. Because we can take things personal, personal. And it really has nothing to do with anybody other than ourselves.
Brenda 42:04
Well, yeah, as parents, we blame ourselves. It's like, I spent so many years thinking, Where did I go wrong? As a mom, what did I do? What decision was it that caused this? And was it taking care of myself? And so I think that's really great. Something to think about is, what can you control? And what you can control is what you're doing with yourself. Our kids see that? If we're taking care of ourselves, and we're happy, and we're whole, that reflects on them as well.
Jeremy 42:33
Yeah, absolutely. And that kind of brings up the question of like, is it nature? Or is it nurture? Right, you know, and I think it's both. I think it's nature, I think, I think I was born this way. Like, do you think nurture accelerated it? Yeah, there are some things in life that happened that caused me to want to get high and stuff. But you know, my brother's very, super raised in the same household. They're not addicts or alcoholics. They're normal people.
Brenda 43:02
Right? It's so confusing.
Jeremy 43:04
Yes. So there's the science of addiction, right? There's like, how many models on how we spoke briefly, there's like the disease models. There's the psychology model of like, it's like from traumas. And then there's, there's, I don't know them all. But there's definitely some models out there of addiction, but I identify as a school of like disease, and that's okay. Because that actually saves my life. Right? Because, do I know if 14 year old was 14 years if I can go have a drink? If I didn't think I had a disease? Like I might try that. Right? Then I'm right to like putting a needle in my arm and then my life's over, you know? Or maybe not. Maybe I can have a drink? Maybe I can go enjoy a glass of wine every now and then. Right? But I'm not willing to find out. Right? I don't need it my life, I'm not willing to find out. So knowing that, like I have a disease of addiction saved my life.
Brenda 44:02
Yeah. Well, that's I think, really important because people do get caught up in this battle about it. And it's like, it doesn't really matter. As long as you you know what, it's okay for you. And if you've built a life where you don't need to go have a glass of wine, then that's all the better and that's, I think the big difference in when I talk with people who are really in recovery is they're like, I don't need that. I have such an amazing life that I don't need to question whether I can go have a glass of wine or a beer or whatever, versus other people who are just that like, oh, maybe I can maybe I can, which would just be a really stressful way to live it seems
Jeremy 44:44
100 percent. We have to surrender, you know, and like I said, I'm an A I'm a 12 stepper. And for me, that's the only thing that works. But it doesn't mean that like that's the only solution for anybody listening out there wants help, but it's what works. work for me in this work continues to work for me.
Brenda 45:03
Yeah, I think there's just such a conversation around, especially now with the opioid crisis being a little bit more in the forefront. I don't know if you're watching Dopesick, just watched, like, horrified. But also, there's just there's a little bit more conversation. Do you think there's misperceptions that people have around either addiction or addicts or substance use
Jeremy 45:25
stigma. And that's part of what MOLT, my company is all about is to, like help reduce the stigma to shatter really, you know, the show these people that are sober, and how they look amazing, you know, I mean, they're healthy, they're vibrant. They're pursuing their dreams. And it's like, the stigma is like, so many people want to write us off. And they want to write, people were using drugs off as like just losers or lack of discipline, or whatever it is. But I don't see that when I see an addict, I see someone who's in a lot of pain. I see them as they're self medicating. You don't have any other solution, and they need help. So yeah, I do think I think that the number is like 50% of the population looks at drug addiction as like, like that, just like negative, they're losers. Just write them off and be like, can't you just stop? You know, I mean, just stop. It's like, it's not that fucking easy.
Brenda 46:19
Well, and I and I remember my son saying this to me when he after he'd been through some really rough times. And she was like, Do you think I wanted to live like that? It's like, how could you look at somebody? Like you are going to skid row to serve food? And how could you think that somebody would want to live that way? That makes no sense whatsoever.
Jeremy 46:42
No, you don't know none of those people do in, it's exhausting. That is your life. That is literally your life. It is all about finding the fix. Nothing else matters. Nothing back to the point where people will get to skid row in the live in a sidewalk and sleep in plastic bags. Because they want to get the fix so much. That's that is the life. And that was my life. For me. I didn't make it to Skid Row, thank God. But my obsession, it was the obsession constant obsession of trying to get high.
Brenda 47:17
Yeah, and this way, I love to tell stories like yours. Because I think it's so important for people to see that you can go from shooting up heroin and living that life to create in a business like MOLT, and you're employing people that have been in that lifestyle, and you're a great guy and like, you're smart, and you're a business person. And there's this perception, I think sometimes that if you come from addiction, or you are that then there's no future for you. And it's so important for people to see the amazing things that people like you are doing. Because the other you know, I talked about how I hear over and over that people, you know, kids especially will say that they just don't feel themselves in their body. The other thing that the other two traits that I see so often and kids are they're highly sensitive, like you said, highly intelligent, like, brilliantly intelligent. Yeah, it's so common, those three aspects. And so when you take somebody like you, are you You are now putting that to use for something good. Is just like mind blowing what you can do.
Jeremy 48:35
Yeah, I agree. And I think when addicts get sober, they're amazing, amazing people. They do amazing things. Yeah, like I know, a lot of super, super smart guys, you know, and super sensitive. And it's like, everything is so loud for us. For some people, like you know, life can be turned up at 10 at moments but for us It's like at 1000 We really like hypersensitive and if you're smart, you don't feel challenged. There's so much in but like your brain and your emotions, and they mix it's perfect storm for just like I don't know what to do. I need to quiet. I need to like dim this down because like I'm gonna lose my shit. And that's how we get high.
Brenda 49:18
Right? It's so fascinating to me that it's so consistent. I hear the same thing. And so I don't know, as parents, I don't have an answer for you, because I'm not a doctor or therapist or anything. But I think if you're listening and you recognize these traits in your kiddo, just be aware, because that's the kid who is probably more ripe for because they're so smart. Like they're gonna find a substance that works immediately and really well. And so, if there's a way to steer towards a different solution, I wish I would have known like, my son is like the poster child for somebody who Who's going to become addicted? Just he does is because he has all those traits. And I have no idea. I just had absolutely no clue. And so I think hearing from you how that actually lived in your body and how you experienced that is really helpful, because parents are pretty, most parents, at least that I work with are very tuned in to their kids. And they know. And they're seeing those things, but they don't know what it means, and they don't know what to do about it. So that's super helpful to hear.
Jeremy 50:28
I can only imagine what you guys, I don't have any kids. Right? And, you know, imagine what you guys go through. And I just want to say I'm sorry. You know, to all the moms out there, you know, my mom, I've said, Sorry, I made amends. But yeah, it's tough. And that's why I mentioned like, Al-Anon, or any kind of group, you know, those if you want to steer away from Al-Anon, some people don't like the whole God thing. It's not like we're talking about Jesus or anything like that to God to your understanding, knowing that like, something bigger than you. But there are definitely support groups, and I just don't think we can go it alone. And I just that is what I'm always going to encourage is to get vulnerable, lean into the people around you, that support you. And just keep working on yourself. That's really it. Because if we don't, we don't take care of ourselves. And we don't figure out what's wrong with us or anything like we're no use to anybody.
Brenda 51:28
Yeah, that's wise, wise words. And speaking of wise words, I'm sure you would have a few I asked this, of several slots of guests that I have. But if I could give you a billboard, so you live in LA, if I could give you a billboard, downtown LA to say anything, either to parents or just people who are struggling. What would your billboard say?
Jeremy 51:52
I'm a stoic in a lot of ways. I believe in stoicism, like philosophy and like I try to you know, and I think that it all lies within us. Right? It's all inside of us. And all our anger and hatred towards someone else, or our problem with this or the problem the world is all because of us. And there's nothing out there that's going to help you or save you. There's nothing that's going to fix you. Except for you. I think the world today if we all stopped pointing fingers at everyone else like this size, not doing it right that sides not doing right. You're this you offend me, you're that, that it's like, we all just kind of pointed that turn that finger around and pointed out of shells. And we looked at like why what causes us these pain these angles, these emotions? So I guess I would say I would quote me Michael Jackson put a quote out there something about the man in the mirror, right? Look Within do the work. I guess that's a shitty billboard. Sorry, I waste your money on that. But I don't have anything more profound to say like something poetic. I like it. Just to like, really go inside look within. Yeah, feel the shit that you got to heal?
Brenda 53:03
Well, the reason I love that about its with its all within us is that, that it rings true for parents as much as it does for anybody who's struggling. Because I think as parents, we have the tendency to look out and say, I need this to fix my kid or I need this, you know, like we're always looking out. And so much of the work does have to happen inside of us. And we have to look at how are we showing up for our kids? Like, with you talking about your parents? How are your parents showing up for you when you really needed empathy and when you needed to be able to have that safe door to walk through and not bashing them? Because obviously they did what they could with what they had and what they knew. And that's what we're all doing. But I think that's I like your billboard, because it really it works for everybody. Thank you so much for joining me. Thank you. I could have like 12 More episodes, but I think that this is really helpful.
Jeremy 54:02
For sure. Yeah. Yeah. And again, I apologize for just being in this like, very melancholy state. You know, I usually have a lot more energy. I'm a little raw today.
Brenda 54:15
That's okay. That's life. Right? That's real life. So I'm good with that. Now, I will ask you an hour later, how are you in this moment?
Jeremy 54:24
It gets me outside of myself, but I'm also very, you know, aware of like, I'm feeling emotional. Today, you know, so bringing up past things kind of made me feel emotional. I probably just need to go cry or something like that, you know, it's like, anger or whatever, there's this whole pain, it's all the root of his pain.
Brenda 54:44
So I was gonna ask you, what do you do kind of what your go to? If you're having one of those days or if you're having one of those moments?
Jeremy 54:52
I'll try to cry because I just release anxiety, this tightness and you know, I'll try to I'll sit down I'll start writing right because I use Like, get something out of me, and I'll start crying. But sometimes, you know, I'll go for a run by exercise or I'll pick up the phone and call a friend. Program.
Brenda 55:10
Awesome. Thank you,
Jeremy 55:12
ladies and gentlemen, this is what almost 14 years of sobriety looks like.
Brenda 55:17
Messy and beautiful at the same time.
Jeremy 55:21
Most days, I'm good. So but today, I'm just experiencing life, you know, on life's terms.
Brenda 55:26
That's how, that's how we roll
Brenda
Thank you so much for listening. If you'd like to go to the show notes, you can always find those at At Brendazane.com/podcast, each episode is listed there with a full transcript, all of the resources that we mentioned, as well as a place to leave comments if you'd like to do that. You might also want to download a free ebook I wrote called hindsight. Three things I wish I knew when my son was addicted to drugs. It's full of the information I wish I would have known when my son was struggling with his addiction. You can grab that at Brendazane.com/hindsight. Thanks again for listening and I will meet you right back here next week.