Ryan Hampton reveals the truth from inside the Purdue Pharma bankruptcy in his newest book, Unsettled
Host: Brenda Zane, brenda@brendazane.com
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Guest: Ryan Hampton, Activist & Author, Unsettled: How the Purdue Pharma Bankruptcy Failed the Victims of the American Overdose Crisis.
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Transcript:
SPEAKERS
Ryan Hampton, Brenda Zane
Brenda 01:42
Friends, I hope that you are ready for today's episode. If you've been following the news about Purdue pharma, and the Sackler family, and if you have been watching the series Dopesick, you already have an idea of what's happening in the aftermath of OxyContin being released into the world. We are now dealing with an unfathomable number of people who have died between May of 2020 and April of 2021. As a result of overdoses and fentanyl poisoning. 100,000 Human beings are no longer on this planet, in our country alone. That's 277 sons, daughters, brothers, sisters, moms, dads, people, her day, gone. I would go on a long rant about this. But if you're listening to Hopestream, you are probably already all too well aware of these numbers and the tragedy that surrounds every single one of them.
Brenda 02:51
So I will just say that this conversation that you're going to hear today, and the book that my guest wrote is so important. I hope after you listen that you will share the episode with basically anyone and everyone you know who will listen because I believe that not enough people understand what has happened in our country since the mid-90s When oxycontin was introduced. Brian Hampton is an author, activist and all-around amazing human being. He sat down with me to talk about his most recent book unsettled and about his firsthand experience of being on the unsecured creditor’s committee, the UCC in the Purdue bankruptcy trial, his role was to help determine how much Purdue Pharma would have to pay in lawsuit settlements and where that money would go. He sat at the table and then behind a computer screen when COVID Shut down the in-person proceedings, and he represented the victims of OxyContin and he found out what money and power can do for companies and their executives in a bankruptcy case.
Brenda 04:08
The book is a must-read it's Ryan's personal account from the victim's standpoint, and it is absolutely shocking to find out what went on behind closed doors in this trial. All I can say is read it. Buckle up, do some deep breathing if you need to. And listen in to Ryan Hampton, author of unsettled how the Purdue pharma bankruptcy failed the victims of the American overdose crisis.
Brenda 04:43
Ryan Welcome to Hopestream. I'm super excited to talk with you today finished your book a few days ago. I like I said I'm still trying to wrap my head around it so I'm very unsettled after it. So thank you for taking the time to be here with me today.
Ryan Hampton 04:58
Thanks for having me, Brenda, Glad to be here.
Brenda 05:02
First of all, I would just want to say and I can't remember, I think you mentioned a couple times in the book that all of your book profits are going to frontline opioid crisis organizations, which is amazing. That's incredible.
Ryan Hampton 05:17
Yeah, this was just a project that I felt was important because there is such a need for solutions that proceeds from sale of any of the sales of the book unsettled, will go to charitable organizations on the frontlines. One of them that's been identified is in Massachusetts, team sharing, which I write about in the book, they work with families of grief, and loss who have lost children, namely from opioid overdoses. Hmm,
Brenda 05:46
that's awesome. That's so incredible. Well, that's very generous of you. And I can see why after reading the book, you must just feel like you want to do everything that you can, because it seemed like there was going to be a lot done for families going into this, it sounded like and then things may have turned out differently.
Ryan Hampton 06:05
Yeah, I mean, that, I think when I entered the case, I thought a lot of good could come from it, it ended up, you know, walking out of it, feeling like this was just nothing but a sham. I mean, you know, pretty, you should have never been able to find refuge in the bankruptcy court to start with. But from day one, the system was really set up to favor, you know, the billionaire class, the government, the big corporations, and at the end of the day, the people harmed the most individuals and family members will be left far behind. And even the dollars that they contend will be spent on services to prevent this from happening, again, in my opinion, are certainly in question.
Brenda 06:54
For sure. I towards the end of the book there I was, I was really shocked to hear that. But I'm wondering if you can just give us just kind of set the stage for the timing of this. Because what I realized is you must have written this and then hit print, because you were writing up until like March of 2021. Was that is that true? Maybe you can give us a setting of like when all this took place?
Ryan Hampton 07:19
Sure, the main meat and potatoes of the book, yes, the writing went up through March, but then afterward was actually written in July. And it went to print shortly after. So I wrote my first book in 2018, American Fix, and was working on a second book, second book proposal with my publisher, which was going to be kind of this history, from an advocacy lens of Purdue, the company, and the Sackler family, and had been in development on that book prior to me being appointed by the Department of Justice in September 2019, to the creditors committee in the pretty bankruptcy.
Ryan Hampton 07:59
And when I ended up getting appointed, I was very transparent with the lawyers that I had been working on this book project, which was just kind of this overview, from an activist perspective on on the company and the family. And really, when you read the book, it reads that way, right. So like the first third of the book is the original book, which was titled sack. It was about the Sackler family, specifically, but about a third of the way into the project, which was when I was working on this committee. In the bankruptcy, I realized the story and the injustice wasn't just the Sackler family and Purdue, it was a process that they were in and struggled for some time on, if how and when I could tell that story because things were happening behind closed doors by people that you would have thought would have been allies of ours and families and people impacted who were really fighting against us. And I think I go into great detail in that in the book. But the project shifted about a third of the way and when I approached the publisher about what was really going on, and they said, Look, you can you know, it's your book. I mean, you could write, write what you feel needs to be written and the story that you feel needs to be told. But it's going to be hard, right? So I literally was turning in chapters and additions and edits to it right up until mid-July, just this past summer. And it went into development very quickly, and editing and printing. It was quite a process.
Brenda 09:32
You must have had a speedy team on there.
Ryan Hampton 09:35
Yeah, it was much different than American Fix. But it was a timely story, though, to timely narrative. And, you know, a lot of the hope coming out of it isn't just as a story in a book for people to read and be enraged by but hopefully, to move people's feet to action and for them to realize that the overdose crisis is way bigger than one company. Way bigger than one family. Yes, the injustice This runs deep, what's happening with Purdue and the Sacklers. But the overdose crisis will be here long after they're gone. And many of the barriers, and I think systemic failures that we came up against inside the case, are a lot of the things we're going to be dealing with long after Purdue has kind of had their last chapter written.
Brenda 10:24
I think one of the most interesting things to learn was what was going on behind the scenes and all the different parties and the systems that were failing, not just that this one company and this one family did this, that it was just like you said, systemic, and it was so upsetting to, to read that.
Ryan Hampton 10:44
Yeah. And the conflicts of interest. I mean, that was just riddled with conflicts of interest. You know, the fact that we're on the cusp of 100,000, preventable overdose deaths this year, and solutions are slow to come. And people are fighting over money. And, you know, folks are putting pennies towards a Bateman, right? I mean, it's pennies, even when these cases are setting down the multi-district litigation, the Purdue pharma bankruptcy. I mean, it's a fraction of what the government should be spending on abating the overdose crisis.
Ryan Hampton 11:23
Essentially, I believe the overdose crisis is continuing unabated. And this is one of the reasons we see these death tolls rising. And when government institutions and powerful attorneys general, notably in the pre-bankruptcy had the opportunity to listen to frontline workers, and advocates who are on the ground and local organizations who are doing this work. And these miracle workers who know what's working in their communities and what needs to change. They were ignored. And they were silenced. And that is enough to make anyone mad.
Brenda 12:00
That actually was a question I had is like, what kind of a mindset do you have to be in to go into those rooms? I mean, I know you started, it sounded like you started very briefly in person. And then you obviously with COVID, had to shift to zoom. But you were doing this all day, every day. And it just I'm wondering, how did you get into a mindset to do that every day when you knew it was going to be combative? When you knew that? What was going on, that you were witnessing was not being translated outside of those rooms and in your community might have been thinking like, how was is he doing anything for us? Right? What How did you do that?
Ryan Hampton 12:42
So I came to the case as an activist, right. So when I was appointed to the department at by DOJ in September 2019, I'd applied for this committee, I was told that there'd be this big powerful committee, it would be served as like this mega plaintiff in the pre-bankruptcy, and that people who had been impacted and folks on this committee would have the opportunity to help steer settlement dollars towards the right places, would be able to represent the victims who had been harmed by the company. And I went in it with this utopian kind of altruistic vision, that we were all on the same side. And that we’re more powerful together. And as I got deeper in the case, and it really became apparent to me that victims on the committee, and actual humans who had been harmed by the company were really on their own. Yeah, we didn't really have any good valid representation, I got myself into a fighting spirit, you know, and, and kind of fight mode and, and I wasn't quiet, and I spoke up, and I made my opinions known.
Ryan Hampton 13:49
And I proposed everything I could think of, in terms of ways to make sure that dollars would be, you know, distributed to victims, and money would go to the emergency relief fund and abatement dollars wouldn't be wasted. And I kept a very positive mindset all the way up until the end, actually, until like, right. When the plan was confirmed. I think I've been trained as an optimist. I think a lot of my life experience in overcoming opioid use disorder and heroin overdoses. And, you know, that resilience that that has come in my own personal recovery journey and those principles I tried to put into practice while working on this case.
Ryan Hampton 14:32
But oftentimes, I felt like I was the only one who felt that way. But really, it was the only way to survive it. I mean, it was maddening. It was, you know, some days it was 17 hours a day, especially during the emergency relief fund negotiations. And these people, the other folks on the other side, I mean, they all had teams of lawyers working with them, right. And I had a lawyer, but I didn't have the bandwidth that many of these other powerful entities tutions had, but it did seem at times that some of the victims on the committee, right that we were more educated in terms of public health, our feet were more squarely on the ground in terms of reality, and what needed to be done than some of these highfalutin lawyers. So I mean, we did have an upper hand in many situations, but the fact that it couldn't be transparent, and that we weren't able to talk about it, and I wasn't able to scream from the rooftops and not be able to build kind of effective, you know, organizing around these efforts, made all the difference in the world.
Ryan Hampton 15:36
I mean, this is why, you know, we ended up getting the short end of the stick, this is why victims ended up getting seven and a half percent of a settlement, while corporations and government are walking away with 92 and a half percent. And 130,000 victims will go home with pennies. I mean, this is one of the reasons this happened, because it you know, it died in darkness. And the message that was being translated to the public, versus what was happening behind closed doors was night and day. It's one of the reasons I wrote the book. And the book actually, was essential, in many respects, somewhat of a journal. For me, it helped put these experiences on paper, knowing that it would be documented knowing that one day possibly would make its way into the world so that people knew what really happened. It made bearing kind of the bloodbath of the Purdue case, a little bit easier for me, because I had an outlet. You know, I had an outlet for that anger, I had an outlet for that rage and frustration, although the outcome was undesirable, at the end of the day, in terms of the confirmation plan, and what is happening with the Sacklers, at least I was able to put pen to paper and bring the real story to life for those who would be interested.
Brenda 16:51
Yeah, I mean, just as a reader, you're so outraged that I cannot fathom what it would have felt like to be in the moment. And you talked about a little bit how you and the other people, the other victims had that knowledge of what actually works to help people more of the public health knowledge. But you did not have that, like Law Degree in bankruptcy court, which it sounds like was a very interesting thing to learn. And, and that that was really what it was all about is just fighting over money would have been just made you insane when you are the one seeing the bodies dropping, and then they're over there arguing about who's getting what dollar?
Ryan Hampton 17:32
Yeah, I mean, I think there is an inherent conflict, right, like attorneys and law enforcement, you know, being an attorneys general should never be making public health decisions. And that's what was going on is, you know, folks thought this was about public health. This has not this, the bankruptcy had nothing to do with public health. And it had nothing to do with justice. And it had nothing to do with the facts. I mean, bankruptcy is not about examining facts. It's not about guilty and not guilty, right.
Ryan Hampton 18:02
It's not about real justice, the type of justice that I think many Americans were looking to get from Purdue and the Sacklers. It was about distributing the money to the most powerful creditors. And the most powerful creditors were the government and corporations, the individuals who had been harmed had the least amount of power in the process. So it was anything, but just if there's one group that really made out well, and I think I detail it quite extensively, in unsettled, it's really the lawyers, I mean, the mass tort lawyers and the lawyer groups that we're representing different creditors, corporations, victims, and when this is all done in dusted a handful of attorneys and consultants less than 1000 of them, way less than 1000 of them will make over one $1.3 billion combined, right. I mean, it's so mind-boggling, a lot of money. 130,000 victims, people who lost loved ones to a Purdue product or their lives were devastated by addiction. They will have to split a fund of $750 million before the attorneys take their haircut that funds probably going to be closer to $500 million. Right? So attorneys will take twice as much 1000 or less attorneys will take twice as much money as 130,000 people who were harmed by the company will have to split amongst themselves. It makes no sense.
Brenda 19:41
No, it's so incredibly difficult to even comprehend. And there had to have been a time that you realized that not one single member of the Sackler family was going to as an individual have to pay or Behind bars or anything like that. And when you hit that realization, how do you keep going? How do you stay invested over the long term? Because this went on for almost two years or was it over two years?
Ryan Hampton 20:15
Yeah, it was over two years. I mean, I hit that realization in the spring, that the system and the bankruptcy in this case was not designed to get any type of meaningful justice from the Sacklers. It was about getting them to write a check. And, you know, getting the dollars to the most powerful creditors, the Sacklers will write a $4.5 billion check, they will receive broad civil immunity for anything opioid related. There's models out there that show that the family will actually after nine years after the settlement is paid, will have made enough money in interest and investments to repay themselves back the original 4.5 billion they put in and probably net a billion dollars.
Ryan Hampton 21:03
So if the Sackler family does nothing more in terms of work between now and nine years, their current investments and interest will pay that settlement off itself, and they will actually make a billion dollars on top of it. It was a losing fight. And I have been fighting the battle to get the Sacklers locked up for a long time. A lot of people were looking to bankruptcy is that was what they wanted the outcome to be. I agree with that. I agree with them today.
Ryan Hampton 21:30
The Department of Justice can still criminally charge the Sacklers 50 state attorneys general who has been screaming for justice or claiming that they want justice, have the police power to charge the Sacklers. The Sacklers have never once set sat for a grand jury, not once have they been indicted. And that should say more about our law enforcement apparatus in this case than anything else. Money is a very powerful, persuasive tool. Many of these attorneys general and I believe the Department of Justice was more concerned with recouping dollars, they were more concerned with the almighty dollar. This is why you haven't seen any criminal charges. Yeah, even though they're out there saying that it could still happen. I would challenge any one of your listeners and any legal scholar to tell me where there has been a massive civil settlement with a bad actor such as the Sacklers, or a company such as Purdue, where they have turned around and charged him criminally. He can't find it. Right, it was a wink-wink kind of tacit nod, that they would not face criminal prosecution.
Ryan Hampton 22:48
I have friends who are sitting in jail for crimes, simple possession crimes for longer than the Sacklers will ever see a jail cell I mean, they're not going to see a jail cell. It's what we call billionaire justice in this country. And if there's any one point the finger at, it's at the US justice system, this is how it is built. It is built to favor the most powerful, and the wealthiest. And then it is built to criminalize people with less than
Brenda 24:00
It seems like just when I think I had a son that went through this, he's kind of in the second wave. He probably never took a legitimate oxycontin because by the time he was taking it, it was all, you know, mixed in with fentanyl. But it seems like the pressure of that experience would be the perfect setup for relapse. Because I just think about what you went through. And I just wonder how did you manage that bit from just a personal perspective of the frustration and the just disbelief that what you were seeing for so long?
Ryan Hampton 24:38
Yeah, I mean, the last two years have been some of the most challenging times in my entire recovery. I mean, you have to remember that even while I was in the midst of the case, and somebody who's in recovery from heroin and opioids in the country was also in the midst of COVID and shutdowns, and I didn't have access to my recovery support meetings and I didn't have access to my community like I would, and there was a tremendous amount of despair and depression and I was losing friends to overdoses during this time as a result, direct result of services not being able to be offered, because of what we were seeing happen with COVID. And it was challenging, but thankfully, you know, I have a partner and I have a family, and I have people who care about me and love me and people that I can talk to, and I have, I have some recovery principles I was able to put into place, I took a lot of walks, you know, I tried to disconnect as much as possible, I was able to join virtual meetings, but my recovery kind of rituals and practices were in full effect even virtually, um, it was challenging, very challenging.
Ryan Hampton 25:46
Because there was a lot of isolation, that was happening, not just as a result of COVID. But as a result of the work in the case, you know, I wasn't able to talk to anybody about it, and it was very hard. But, you know, I'm fortunate enough that I do have a very close-knit recovery community, you know, recovery. It's all about community. You know, whether it's a virtual community, whether it's a live community, whether it's a community, within your family, your network, it's all about building community. And people do that very, you know, in various ways. I was fortunate enough to have a solid foundation and community throughout the process, and it made a world of difference to me.
Brenda 26:23
Well, yeah, I would think so that was just kind of from the personal perspective, I was reading between the lines, just thinking how is he doing this? How is he doing this? I was just showing up every day and going through, it's it's like watching the most insane movie, and you wouldn't be able to talk about it with anybody. So
Ryan Hampton 26:40
well, it was hard to because I I was losing people also process. And I wrote about some of them in the book, my anger and my rage came out in committee meetings, like I would talk about, you know, when Jesse died, I was very vocal about Jesse's death, and in many meetings and with other players in the case, and, and just how it was impacting me and how they were looking at this through a lens of, you know, collecting dollars and making money, and I was looking through it a lot through a lens of my friends are dying, like in real-time. And you all are, this is just business as usual for you.
Brenda 27:15
Did you ever get a hint that they could comprehend that?
Ryan Hampton 27:20
No, I don't. I don't think I mean, I think we saw moments of empathy, I think from the judge and others. But in terms of real comprehension, no, because I don't think anybody really comprehends it unless they're living it themselves.
Brenda 27:34
Right? Well, there were a couple of things that sort of percolated to the top for me as themes when I was reading. And one of those was I think he talked about it more in the beginning of, you know, if you hadn't been involved in this committee and seen what you saw with your own eyes and heard with your own ears, it would be hard to believe in there's, I think, an element that I took away from this thinking we don't truly know, it's very easy from our own little bubbles, to look at something and have a judgement about it or have our own opinions, but we don't truly know what's going on. And I think that was a really powerful thing for me to think about is do we ever really know what's happening? Or what's true? And how we all have to be responsible for ourselves and do our own investigative work to the best that we can. Obviously, we can't all be, you know, behind the closed doors like you were, what do you think about that now coming out the other end? Because like you said, you are an activist, and you're out there and talking, did that impact you? Or how do you think you might be different now, having been through that experience,
Ryan Hampton 28:43
I think it's important for any of us that do this work to speak truth to power, because behind closed doors, there's a lot of inaction going on. And there's still a lot of systemic prejudice and bias against people who are impacted by addiction. People who use drugs, family members, I was shocked, absolutely shocked that people who work for state governments who were in front of a microphone saying that they were fighting for victims and families who had been harmed by Purdue and the Sacklers. And that was their primary mission, that behind closed doors, we're fighting equally as hard to keep money away from victims, and said to my face, that they did not believe that victims deserved anything because we did this to ourselves. That was one of their legal arguments during mediation.
Ryan Hampton 29:42
And when that was communicated to me, I was like game-over. Like this is what we're still up against in 2020, 2021. They don't believe that were worthy of anything because we're quote-unquote addicts are we did this to ourselves, but they're gonna use their bully pulpit and their microphone to build a bigger platform for themselves and to get elected to the next office. Right. Like every attorney general wakes up in the morning and sees a governor in the mirror, we're seeing several of the attorneys general, who worked on this case running for governor in their states. In fact, the Deputy Attorney General, who said that we did this to ourselves, his boss is running for governor of the New York, you know, state of New York. Right? Like, I mean, the fact that things like that couldn't be more public, really upset me.
Ryan Hampton 30:39
But it also showed me how much work we have to do. Right, I felt like we were 20, we're 20 years behind. At this point, like, we think we're making so much progress in terms of stigma, discrimination and prejudice. But really, when you get behind these closed doors, and these smoke-filled rooms, where a lot of these important decisions are being made. They don't think very much of us. Not much has changed there. They may say that we've made progress, but where the, you know, rubber hits the road, and where it really matters, not so much.
Brenda 31:09
Yeah, well, and there was a really, really profound thing toward the end of the book where you were out doing some Naloxone training. And some of the guys that you're with asked what you did. And so you kind of said, well, have you heard of this company, Purdue or the Sacklers. And they just sort of looked at you with a blank stare? And what I'm thinking is, that's one of the reasons why I think this book is so important is that there is this now generation who is still suffering, the impact of what happened with Purdue that they don't even know that it happened. And it's only been how many years, you know, I mean, the lawsuit is still wrapping up. But you have these people who don't even realize what happened. That had to have just been completely crazy.
Ryan Hampton 32:01
I mean, it was, I had been in this bubble for two years. And, you know, this was, as soon as travel restrictions were starting to lift. And in April of this past year, I went and did Naloxone trainings across the state of New Jersey, and I really realized that no matter what was going on in this case, or in these or even I'll just say opioid litigation, in general, because there's a lot of it going on right now. These cases were so far disconnected from what was happening on the ground, that people weren't necessarily those, you know, who were struggling right now who needed help.
Ryan Hampton 32:42
Whether or not the Sacklers went to jail, or whether or not Purdue was found guilty in criminal court like these guys that at this sober home, like, it didn't matter to them, right. They needed help, and the help that they needed, wasn't necessarily there, regardless of the outcome of the case. And it brought me close to home and a sense of where is my impact? Where's my work? More important? And what is my place in this world? Yeah, and where can I be of most service? And it's really been my guiding decision.
Ryan Hampton 33:24
You know, I decided that post when the book was published, that I really wanted to get back to basics and really focus on what's near and dear to my heart, which is my community. I live in Clark County, Nevada, I mean, we have a fentanyl surge that's just through the roof, like, would my time had been better spent arguing with a bunch of people who didn't want to hear from me? who held the power and who were going to keep all the settlement dollars to themselves? Or would my of time been better spent building a recovery-friendly community here in Clark County, and helping to make sure we had access to more resources here locally, I would say probably helping people closer to home would have been a better use of my time.
Ryan Hampton 34:03
And so it broke my heart when I went on that trip and sat in that sober home and listen to those stories to think that I may have wasted two years of my life. And to know that I had lost so many folks, people that I love and care about that year that maybe I could have been there for because I thought I was doing a service to the greater good by fighting the good fight. That's bankruptcy when the outcome had been, you know, cast in stone long before I even got there.
Brenda 34:32
Right. But you didn't know that going into it. Right.
Ryan Hampton 34:36
But there's been a reflection on that going out like I now believe, I mean, I don't know when this will air but just today, you know, the Oklahoma Supreme Court overturned the $465 million settlement with Johnson and Johnson and their opioid sued in the state of Oklahoma because of you know, a nuance in the public nuisance claim that they made. Like I came out of the Purdue case they During this opioid litigation is going to be one of the biggest colossal public health failures in the history of the United States worse than the tobacco suits, dollars are not going to get to where they need to be. And in a sense, the hyper-focus on opioid litigation has led the government off the hook in terms of what else they could be doing.
Ryan Hampton 35:19
Because anytime you ask a politician, hey, what are you doing to solve this overdose crisis? They'll point to the opioid litigation say, Oh, look at look at XYZ look at what we're doing in terms of accountability. Yes, but I now come out of this case, wanting to put that question back to them saying, Well, what about all the taxes I pay for the services that you should already be be providing plus more? Yes, you know, because they're not providing those services at scale, or anywhere near the scale that they need to the opioid litigation in total, right, the produce settlement will be about 9 billion spread out over nine years, and the multi district litigation will be somewhere between 24 and $27 billion spread out over 18 years, right 70% of that money only has to go to abatement, that is pennies when you divide it by 50 states, we have models and advocates and folks on the ground who have been fighting saying we need a $100 billion at $10 billion per year commitment, minimum to start to scratch the surface of the crisis. Right.
Ryan Hampton 36:22
But we can't get that we can't get anywhere near that Congress has spent 700 times more on on on the COVID crisis, which is not to take away from COVID. But for every eight COVID deaths, there's one overdose death. So it's it is so disproportional, it goes back to my statement earlier of, well, what's really happening here, I hate to say it, but just go back to that piece I write about that Deputy New York Attorney General who said we did it to ourselves. That's why we're not seeing more of an investment in this space. And that's what really ticks me off. That's what makes me angry. That's what I think I hopefully my fight is going to be coming out of this case is to make sure that we're not treated that way. This is a there are two public health crisis in the United States right now. One is COVID. The other one is overdose. They are both federally declared public health crises, yet one receives funding, the other one doesn't.
Brenda 37:22
Correct. And I think when you know, just listening to those numbers and reading them in the book, I think it can be easy for people to look at a number like oh, well $9 billion with a B Well, that should be able to take care of it right? Because it's just such a staggering number that we can't wrap our heads around it. But that is not even a drop in the
Ryan Hampton 37:43
pennies. I mean, it's pennies. And when you think about in terms of like the settlement of for victims, right. So you also have to remember that the Purdue bankruptcy is the only mechanism for actual human beings to collect any sort of dollars any tort sort of settlement dollars for the harm that was caused to them. There's no mechanism in the multi district litigation and the other opioid litigation for individuals to participate. There is in the Purdue pharma bankruptcy as a result of the claims as as as part of the Bankruptcy Code.
Ryan Hampton 38:14
Yet a mother who lost her child to an oxycontin overdose or as a result of harm from Oxycontin, the maximum payout is $48,000, before the lawyer gets their fee, by comparison, in a recent auto manufacturer bankruptcy, around faulty seatbelts, individuals who were quote-unquote harmed by the seatbelts with as much of a bruise from the seatbelt, no death by injury, right. But just a bruise from the faulty seatbelt will receive more than that $48,000 for losing your child to an oxycontin overdose. That's because government didn't step in and say we want 92 and a half percent of the settlement and the Purdue pharma bankruptcy.
Ryan Hampton 38:59
I'll use this comparison, people say yes, but all the money's going to go to the States, the states are going to spend it to build a better treatment system, a better infrastructure, more recovery supports all the things you say you care about Ryan, right? And I say yes, that's great. I do care about those things, but I also pay taxes for those things. Those things should be provided at scale. Regardless of what happens with the Purdue Pharma bankruptcy. Why are you robbing individuals of the only opportunity they have for justice, which exists in this bankruptcy mechanism?
Ryan Hampton 39:31
If there was a water spill or a chemical spill in the state of Massachusetts and Boston you know, water supply got poisoned by a company who intentionally poison the water and 130,000 Bostonians or individuals lost their lives as the result of this contaminated water supply. And the Attorney General of Massachusetts sued that chemical company for intentionally poisoning the water and that chemical company had to file for bankruptcy because they didn't have enough money in the bank to cover the liability of the lawsuit. Right. And then those 130,000 victims, or their families who lost their lives to the contaminated water filed claims against the bankruptcy. Do you think that the Attorney General of Massachusetts would stand in open court and say, Yes, but the state wants 92 and a half percent of the money, because we're standing up for the victims, we're going to build a better water system so this never happens again, we're going to use this money, so it never happens again.
Ryan Hampton 40:30
But those 130,000 lives that lost their lives, they only should take seven and a half percent of the settlement. I think America would be outraged if that happened. Because people would be like, we pay taxes for you to do that. Why are you going to rob the victims of this chemical company? The right to justice or any sort of shred of justice? It would never happen. But because it's addiction and we quote-unquote, did this to ourselves. It's acceptable.
Brenda 40:56
Right. I was gonna say, and well, they drank the water willingly. So
Ryan Hampton 41:01
the water willingly, right? Did they drink the water? They knew. Didn't they know there was something funny with that water? It's their fault,
Brenda 41:07
right? Yeah. Well, and we don't have time to cover it but in the book, you have to, if you're listening, you have to read because there is a page that actually has a chart that lays out the allocation of points that each person would get, depending on how severely they were harmed and how they were harmed by Oxycontin. It is shocking to see that imprint. So thank you for including that in the book.
Ryan Hampton 41:33
It was like we were a chess game. I mean, yes, that's how it felt. Yeah,
Brenda 41:37
it looks like a game board like, well, if it was this, and this, then you get 20 points. So well, I know I need to let you go. I guess one question I would have in wrapping up is, is there one or two things that you really want people to think or feel after they read unsettled?
Ryan Hampton 41:55
Yes, get involved. Please, if you're impacted by addiction, if you're impacted by overdose, and you're able to speak up, please speak up, get involved, talk to your policymakers, talk to your members of Congress, talk to your state legislators do not be silent. One of the reasons that we're seeing such an adverse, you know, outcome, and a lot of this opioid litigation and around policy is because we don't have enough people who are out there screaming from the rooftops that something needs to change, right. I encourage you please get involved. If you're looking for a way to get involved. Reach out to me, you know, Ryan hampton.org, hit me up on social media. There's plenty of organizations doing great work. And I'm sure we'd love to have your advocacy and your voice involved.
Brenda 42:39
Yes, thank you. And I will link to your website in the show notes. So if you're listening and you want to get in touch with Ryan, I will put those there. Thank you so much. This has been amazing, please, if you're listening, read the book, I'll put a link to that as well. And just know that all of the proceeds are going to help those who actually need it.
Ryan Hampton 42:58
Thank you, Brenda. Appreciate it.
Brenda
Thank you so much for listening. If you'd like to go to the show notes, you can always find those at At Brendazane.com/podcast, each episode is listed there with a full transcript, all of the resources that we mentioned, as well as a place to leave comments if you'd like to do that. You might also want to download a free ebook I wrote called Hindsight: Three things I wish I knew when my son was addicted to drugs. It's full of the information I wish I would have known when my son was struggling with his addiction. You can grab that at Brendazane.com/hindsight. Thanks again for listening and I will meet you right back here next week.