coaches, mentors and a whole lot of tenacity: wrapping families with the support they need to heal from addiction, with Lori Thompson

Host: Brenda Zane, brenda@brendazane.com
Instagram: @the.stream.community

The Stream Community: online and app-based community for moms of kids experimenting with or addicted to drugs or alcohol

Free ebook: “HINDSIGHT: 3 Things I Wish I Knew When My Son Was Addicted to Drugs, by Brenda Zane. Download here

Guest: Lori Thompson, Wonder Colorado

Resources:

Some of Lori’s recommended books:

Nonviolent Communication by Marshall Rosenberg

The Happiness Trap by Russ Harris

Show Transcript:

SPEAKERS

Brenda Zane, Lori Thompson

Brenda  01:44

Welcome. For today's episode, I had a conversation with someone who has been in a lot of different roles in working with families and teens. And she gave some really, really valuable insight into what she sees, and experiences with the families that she and her team of mentors and coaches work with in Colorado. Lori Thompson is a licensed professional counselor, she received her Master's degree in counseling psychology from Naropa University. And she has been working with adolescents young adults and families for over 15 years. Her experience as a deputy sheriff and a school resource officer provided her with a great foundation to her journey of becoming a therapist - as you can imagine. Her approach is a combination of multiple modalities, including body centered therapy, DBT family systems, and acceptance and Commitment Therapy or ACT. She is also trained in EMDR therapy and has worked with clients with autism spectrum disorder. And she has a lot of experience also with clients who struggle with things like depression, anxiety, and trauma. And she has done a lot. She's done a lot. So I was very excited to talk with her specifically because of this vast range of experience over her career. And I really wanted to get some insider information about parents and teens and families in general because she has been in on those conversations that we as parents wish that we could be in on when our kiddos are with a therapist. And we're really wishing we could be a fly on the wall and understanding what's going on. Lori has been there and her team is there every single day. So I think you'll get a lot out of this information out of Lori perspective and her incredible work. So please enjoy the conversation with Lori Thompson, she’s the regional team leader for Wonder in Colorado. 

Brenda  03:53

Welcome, Lori. I'm so excited to have you on the podcast today. I had such a great conversation with your cohorts, Dave and Willow, that I asked them to get me in touch with somebody that they would recommend to have a real heart to heart and somebody who's really in touch with the day to day with kids. And you are the nomination. So thank you for being here.

Lori Thompson  04:17

Awesome. Yeah, happy to be here.

Brenda  04:19

Cool. Well, I think we're gonna have a great talk today just about teens and you know, all of the stuff that they go through and young adults but before we do, I love to ask kind of a personal question to let people get to know you a little bit better. And that is what did you have for breakfast this morning? 

Lori Thompson  04:39

Okay, um, the probably the first thing I ate was a cold brew coffee goo and some water. Those little liquid gel things that people have before they work out because I'm trying to get the workout in. So I had one of those, and then I had some Greek vanilla yogurt with granola and a banana.

Brenda  05:10

Super healthy! Is that pretty typical for you?

Lori Thompson  05:15

Well, actually, the yogurt was about to go bad. That's why I ate it. It's usually either cereal, almond milk, banana, or eggs and hash browns.

Brenda  05:27

Awesome. Awesome. I didn't know there was like a cold brew coffee version of the goo. Does it have caffeine in it? So is that kind of like your coffee and your workout prep all in one?

05:38

Oh, no. No, the coffee always comes first. Yeah. If we get into talking about addiction, full self disclosure, I love coffee. For sure. Yeah, I think I probably got it because it was on sale actually.

Brenda  05:53

Yeah. Nice. Well, that sounds like a good start to your day.

Lori Thompson  05:58

Yeah.

Brenda  05:59

So why don't you just give us a bit of background on yourself and how you became interested in working with young people and families. I know you've been doing this for a while. And just give us some context into how you came to be doing what you're doing?

Lori Thompson  06:14

Yeah, well, I've been a therapist since I graduated Naropa from the transpersonal counseling track in 2012. And originally, I'm from Austin, Texas, and I was a Travis County Deputy Sheriff and I worked on the lake and did Lake patrol. And a lot of times, we would, you know, there was this place called kids cliff, and you'd come around the corner and of course, all the kids would throw their alcohol up in the air and jump off the cliff into the water, I'm like, this is safe.

Brenda  06:49

That sounds horrible

Lori Thompson  06:53

Right, yeah, they get out of the water. And I'm like, you know, where's your ID, and they're like, not old enough to be drinking. That's why they're out there trying to hide, so nobody has an ID, nobody's telling you their right name. And you're like a secretary, because you're just writing tickets and distributing them. Or if you're taking them to jail, you're a taxi cab driver today, to taking them to jail. And I'm like, this is so not helpful for anyone. So then I ended up going into Austin Independent School District where I was a school resource officer, which was great. I really, really loved my work and position there with the kids. And it came, you know, to me, the principal would come into my office and like, you know, cut this kid loose, right, on their truancy ticket and send them on their way. There's 1500 other kids out there. And you know, it's like, the kid doesn't need a truancy ticket, the kids, you know, mom's in jail, nobody knows this kid, there's kids at home that this other kid is getting off to school. That's why he's late to school. And it's just like, there's so many more stories underneath, and just not enough time to get to them all.

08:17

So, you know, one thing sort of led me to another and I ended up doing some personal training for a while and when they would come in and, and the moms were upset and just like started crying. When they walked in the door to get their membership, they'd always call me down. I'm like, okay, and sit there, and they're like, I'm overwhelmed, my kids take up all my time. This this is this is happening with my husband and my kids. And I don't have time for myself. And, you know, one thing led to another and I'm like, you know what, I'm probably...you know, every role served its purpose, but that's how I sort of found my way to counseling. It just built on everything. And, and I think I finally found the place that I'm supposed to be in.

Brenda  09:05

Hmm, that's so that's so great. Because that must have just been overwhelming. If you're one, one resource officer in a huge school and all the chaos - you must have seen there, could just be like, where would you start?

09:19

Well, right, and you start with what's directly in front of you and just try to focus on that. And, you know, try not to let the other chaos coming at me, you know, overtake what I was trying to do with the kids or how I was trying to connect with the kids. Yeah,

Brenda  09:38

yeah. And was that in high school?

Lori Thompson  09:41

It was a middle school actually Middle School. Yeah, I was put in a middle school funny this story. There was a there was a class when I first started there, like it's called Junior Police Academy. And it's for all the kids who want to know about law enforcement and grow up to be police officers. I'm like oh, this will be great. Well, that's not the case. It's the kids that no one else could tolerate in their classroom that they put in my classroom. And you don't put a police officer in a teaching position, I have the most immense amount of respect for any teacher, because I'll tell you what they ran all over me. You just don't know how to be a teacher automatically. And just because you're wearing a police officer uniform does not mean you get respect automatically from middle school kids. It is they ate me alive. So the utmost respect for teachers!

Brenda  10:41

Yeah, and I've heard from so many people in talking about this, that eighth grade period is really critical, and that you can see, kids, you know, that the age really, where you can tell if a kid's gonna be more likely to have problems than not, did you see that when you're in that role?

Lori Thompson  11:02

You know, honestly, I think I was probably, that was in my late 20s. So I probably self disclosure, I'm almost 50. So I don't think I had enough awareness to know that back then. And I didn't see the trajectory of how the eighth graders, right, went into high school, but you could definitely, I mean, I felt like you could see it with the sixth graders, it was six, seventh and eighth grade, and you could see it with them. But if they're on a great path, and they start to really struggle and get in with the wrong crowd, or, you know, get into other negative influences if it's starting to happen in eighth grade it you know, it's it's not not a good sign.

Brenda  11:50

So from from your time there you got licensed as a therapist? And then how did you end up coming into doing what you're doing today? And kind of tell us what it is that you do today?

Lori Thompson  12:02

I worked in a young adult transition program for my practicum in school and then did worked in a drug and alcohol resource therapeutic center for my internship. So I think I when I found my what actually what happened is I took a DBT course and the instructor saw me walking down the street outside of the young adult transition program, and chased me down the street. She's like, my name is Nina. My name is Nina. I run this program. Come see it. Do you remember me? And I'm like, yeah, you taught the class. So we went upstairs. I'm like, do you take practicum students? And she was like, Yes, you'll do your practicum here. And I met, you might know Brooks Witter was the director at the time. And so I just sort of got pulled up there. And, and I don't do well in an office. 

Lori Thompson  13:02

So did my practicum, where, you know, we there was a primary therapist, and we worked as what they call them life skills counselors out in the community, like helping, you know, whether it was getting a job or applying for school and, or life skills of cleaning and cooking. I mean, all of those translate into therapeutic topics very quickly, in the moment. So that, you know, and then I had known about Dave Herz through through that work, and sort of one thing led to another and, oh, I've been working with,Dave in various capacities for probably about four years now, I'd say. And just the the same type of work of working with families, in the homes out in the community. I just think that there's these, you know, beautiful moments and natural containers that,  hold the adolescents and young adults that can't be emulated in an office, or for kids who office work is not the best environment for them. Some it is some isn't. And just having an avenue for the kids where it isn't.

Brenda  14:29

Yeah, and I'll have you talk more about what you do specifically, but that's what I really love about the the model at Wonder is that you're out where kids are where parents are and, and I just think that dynamics got to be so powerful to not, you know, you take a adolescent kid and stick them in a therapist office, and it's not that good work can't happen there. But how much more natural, an environment and a conversation can flow if you're just sort of out in their in their space, which just so cool.

Lori Thompson  15:02

Mm hmm. Yeah, absolutely. 

Brenda  15:05

So what do you do, kind of what is the day in the life of Lori look like right now and what you do?

Lori Thompson  15:12

Oh, right now. So I'm the team leader for Colorado. So I'm the clinical director for mentors and parent coaches, as well as manage the whole, the team in Colorado. So, probably a typical day would be supervision with our mentors and parent coaches. In the moment, you know, what the parents and and and adolescents, young adults have access to our cell phones. So if we don't have an appointment, they can reach out or text or call. So sometimes it's, it's answering those throughout the day. And I am not doing mentoring currently, but I do have a small caseload of parents that I do parent coaching for. So it might include some parent coaching calls, and we do. Yeah, with the parents. And, you know, it's interesting, like, we usually do family meetings in person. And of course, with COVID people are all over the map and, and how they feel comfortable and where they've been, and, you know, wearing a mask and being social distance, like all those things come into play, whether that, whether we are doing that or not doing that. So that just kind of varies for sure. And also running team meetings for the team.

Brenda  16:44

Yeah, that had to really be a big switch up, because you guys are typically so hands on and in face to face, and how are kids adjusting to that? Are they doing okay, with with sort of moving to a virtual model?

Lori Thompson  17:00

I would say, well, we're back in person with a lot of them. The family meetings are a little bit different. Whether we do in person or not, but the most of the mentors are back in person at least here in Colorado. We have lots of protocols in place for as far as like notifying if you're a kiddo, and you've had a fever, been around with someone a fever, you know, all the things where you go into places, and they have these questionnaires, like, in our new client paperwork, there's a whole questionnaire about those sorts of symptoms and things and are and vice versa, we let the families know. 

Lori Thompson  17:43

So but yeah, I mean, right, back in March, at least, that's when it started, everything changed. So quick. I mean, it was like, overnight, literally, that we had to like, sort of redo everything. And and you found that people who might have been more shy in person, or maybe not as engaged, I think that there was something about the distance a little bit that some of them are like, you think, man, this kid so hard to engage in person is going to be impossible, you know, over video or the phone, or text. And, boy, if we weren't surprised, some of those kids, it was just enough distance, that they were able to get in contact with more of their vulnerable side to be more engaged. So that was, you know, we're all learning this. So who knew - and sometimes the kids that were really engaged were like, you know, this, I don't really like just sitting here talking. I don't really have anything to say. And that's where, you know, it's it's hard because you try to come up with activities and things of that nature. You know, maybe it's switching and going on a walk with the client, FaceTime and you're noting what you see and how it makes you feel. So there's there's been a lot of creativity that our mentors have been amazing with just just working on the fly because right life is that's the nature of this job. And how we work anyway, is like we just work with what's in the moment. So it was just that on a much grander scale.

Brenda  19:32

No, it sounds like you would really have to be just very nimble to recognize the signals that you're getting from from a kid to say, ooh, maybe we need to switch this up a little bit.

Lori Thompson  19:46

Yeah.

Brenda  19:47

Wow. Well, that's, that's amazing. So you're seeing from your sort of vantage point, you've seen the like, boots on the ground being with the kids, and then more supervisory level you're seeing like the bigger family systems. Are there things that you've seen, because I know when you do something year in year out and you start to see patterns and trends, are there things that you've seen through the course of your career, which is super cool, having kind of started in law enforcement, and you've seen all different sides of it, are there some sort of, root causes or similarities that you see with kids who struggle, either just with sort of some of the emotional issues with anxiety or depression or ones that eventually end up having substance use problems?

Lori Thompson  20:39

It's interesting, sometimes like root causes, it feels like definitely, so many of the core struggles that we see can be the same. And I think it's, at its essence, when you work with families, or parents, kids. And if we're talking right, we're definitely a family systems approach. But most of the families call us because their adolescent, or teen is the identified patient for one reason or another. But I think at the core, it's it's definitely everyone wants to feel loved. And everyone, everyone, you know, teenagers feel lost, you were talking about the eighth grade part. It's like, Where do I belong? do I belong? Who do I belong to? And when they feel lost, and without a purpose, or peer pressure? You know, I definitely think those are some of the themes that appear again and again, as far as root causes. 

Lori Thompson  21:55

For sure, and I think it's, you know, there's this transition, right, when our kids are young, they just say anything, and they have, well, this is a total stereotype, but they hug us and we're more connected. And as they grow up and start to individuate that can feel very rocky and isolating. So that individuation process can can feel like it's, you know, tearing you apart from your, from your adolescent. And so you definitely see that, like, I don't know how to connect with them. I don't know what to do with them. And I definitely think that, you know, years ago, it was probably more, they use the term failure to launch I, you know, somebody told me that night, they were like, well, that's an awful word like that just says they can't and, you know, that term is so prevelant. So, yeah, so, you know, that was like the theme for the longest time. And I feel like, you know, I started this when there weren't really, iPhones or smartphones. So if you look at that, and the trajectory, the root causes, you know, one of the first thing that comes up is they're addicted to electronics. So if we look at the spectrum of where we were 10 years ago, to where we are now, like, social media, and electronics is one of the main topics where of course it wasn't before, right?

Brenda  23:28

Yeah, that's such a struggle for parents. I know, I have 14, 15 year old. And then older kids, too. But they literally are glued to those things, and it's so hard to know what to do. So that's something that you definitely see involved. And I'm sure you deal with on a regular basis with your with your clients.

Lori Thompson  23:50

Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I don't, it's definitely interesting, as we see, you know, those electronics were like, before COVID, it was like, get them off, get them off. And now what I am seeing with parents now is since March, kids are kind of getting tired of it, and they're coming back into their families, and they're talking to their parents and they're becoming more connected. But because it's like, nobody knew when when we would lose our relationships in our community, all of a sudden, it got taken away from us and our kids in so many ways. And now kids are craving being in person where they weren't before. Maybe spending less time on electronics, maybe more time but what I found is the way that kids they're, you know, it's its own the intention of it, are they using it for their isolation and to escape and avoid life or they are using it to connect and right now it's a lot of them are using it actually to connect There's this, there's this weird play of like, oh, electronics let's pull them off of it where, oh, actually they're actually connecting with people in this as a pro-social way, in this world currently. So it's trippy for me in viewpoints and how we're how this is shifting a bit.A new perspective.

Brenda  25:22

Totally. That's such an interesting perspective. I hadn't really thought about it that way. And that it's the intention of what they're doing with it. And, yeah, maybe one of the, you know, kind of silver linings of all of this is that kids in this, I don't know what age range you would pick this out. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on that. But maybe, maybe they'll end up was more of a healthy relationship with electronics because of this. And having experienced both, like the unhealthy and now maybe a slightly more healthy relationship with their their phones, I don't know.

Lori Thompson  26:01

I'd say where parents are more involved, like the old some of the older kids, we see maybe 18 and over where the kids might not be in the home. So we're not seeing we're not hearing so much of the parents say they need to get off. I'd say it's more of the like 14 to 17 year olds that where this is most, most of the discussion is happening with my parents and their families. 

Brenda  26:27

Yeah, that's that's a tricky age. Is there sort of a,  if you had to kind of step back kind of globally and look at what's going on with the families that you see, and with kids, is there sort of a state of the union that you would identify of where you think teens and sort of young adolescents are now? I kind of think of up to the age of, you know, 20-23? I'm not sure if you're seeing kids that in that age range, but is there something that you just sort of think sort of pegs what's going on with these kids now, that you think is important for parents to know?

Lori Thompson  27:10

I think that if we're going, you're saying, we're going older, to like 20 to 23?

Brenda  27:18

Yeah, just in that age range, where maybe they're, you know, either maybe they haven't gone off to college, maybe they're one of those. I don't know what the new term is the failure to launch kid, the struggling, you know, to find their their adulthood, you know, up to that age where you just see kids really sort of untethered, I guess, is kind of a term that I think of, what's going on with those guys?

Lori Thompson  27:48

Yeah, I like the term untethered, I use the term failure to launch because it's been thrown around a lot. But yeah, it's not my favorite term. I like that, I like untethered, or just like, a different path, a different path. You know, it's, all part of the journey. And I, I think it's hard because I think with 20, to 23 year olds, they, they're some of the first ages that got caught in that technology realm of fear of missing out on everything, and, like, being isolated. So I think there's, you know, I don't know if it's common, but like, when we were young, our parents could not see everything we were doing, and thank goodness, right, parents now can see they have trackers on phones, they have this, that they read their text messages. And, you know, there's some alarming behavior out there. And, I think it it brings it to a level that sometimes I'm not sure is necessary, because of the tracking. 

Lori Thompson  29:09

Some of it is necessary if someone's you know, we know someone's smoking pot, and they say they're not driving but then they find we find out that they are, you know, that's a matter of safety and stability, and that's a different conversation. But I think letting kids be kids is an important message as long as they're safe You know, there's a lot of different routes now there's there's gap years and you know, it's if we were having this conversation a year ago there you know, of course, I'd be saying you know, there's there's different schools and programs and sports that you can or clubs you can get into you name the gamut there, there's or trade schools or there's so many different paths out there for young adults to take. And I think there still are in the time of COVID. But it is just different right now. And it's hard to, I find myself pigeon holing myself into that trajectory, because I don't see us leaving it anytime too soon. And that's what present for parents and kids alike. But I think for the 20 to 23 range, I think it is just keep safety and stability in mind. And give them give them a little rope.

Brenda  30:33

Yeah, it is a blessing and a curse as a parent to have that much information. Like you said, you you've got access to a lot, but should you use it? You know, I'm in my early 50s, and I think holy smokes, I'm glad my parents didn't know everything that I was doing and didn't, they didn't have to make the choice to decide to track me or not, or, you know, you just did what you did. And I think kids do miss some of that. And maybe that's where some of this helicopter parenting is coming from. Because you do have the ability to be in touch all the time you feel like you should. And so that's a hard thing as a parent to hold back to say, Okay, I know I could check in right now. But I'm not going to that's that's just torture.

Lori Thompson  31:22

Right? Yeah. And it's like, it's just because I love you, it's just because I love you. And remembering that love felt, you know, by a parent does doesn't automatically translate into the love experienced by the child, or young adult. So, right, it's the intention of the parent to, I just love you, and I care about you, but the child doesn't experience it like that. And so you bring it back to relationship relationship relationship, 

Brenda  31:58

...which is is such a challenge at that age, because kids that that, you know, in the in the younger age, and those teens are so hot and cold. And, you know, one day they will give you a hug. And then the next day, it's like, you know, it's almost like your poison like, Oh, I would never get near you.

Lori Thompson  32:17

Right? Remember, maybe I'd say remember what it was like when you were that age and take it with a grain of salt.

Brenda  32:23

Right? There are some things that are still the same. Theys still don't want to be around their parents. No matter how cool you think you are. And you know, I think sometimes as parents, we think, oh, but we're you know, but I'm the cool parent, like of course my kids would want to be around me. It's like no, nope.

Lori Thompson  32:41

Right? Yep. Yeah.

Brenda  32:44

Kind of in that same vein, just because you guys get the the real deal from from kids. And I know parents would love to be a fly on the wall and some of those sessions if I was kind of a fly on the wall, listening to your, your team, your your team mentors who are out there, one on one with teenagers, what would I hear? Like, what would those conversations kind of sound like? What are you guys talking about when you have these sessions with kids?

Lori Thompson  33:12

From from the mentors, you know, point of view of working with the kids. And right by the time families come to us, generally it is not their first rodeo. And the kids have been through a therapeutic process more than once. Either coming either from wilderness therapeutic boarding school, maybe intensive individual therapy, you name it. And and it's a tricky age, because it starts at a younger age. It's like my kid, blah, blah, blah. And so the kid sort of feels like, I have to do this for my parents so, what are you, to the mentor, what are you going to make me do that my parents want me to do? Like, you're here to get my parents, from my parents to give me to do something. And that wrecks a relationship immediately. So a lot I think the conversation is, you know, with with the adolescents, young adults is, what do you want? 

Lori Thompson  34:19

And, and generally it's not, I just wanna party. Maybe it starts out that way. But when you really get down to it, they're like, I want friends. I don't want to feel like I'm bullied. Yeah, I want my parents to be proud of me. That's what I want. Okay, like, and when you get to it, it's like, well, how are you going to do it? And they're like, Well, my friends invite me to smoke pot. So I do that. Okay. Okay, let's, let's back up. Let's back up. Is that what you want to do? Yeah. Okay, let's back up some more. Why do you want to do it? Because I want to feel accepted. Okay, so the core is you want to feel accepted? Yes. 

Lori Thompson  35:09

So it's really just giving them the room to say all the wrong answers, and defend them and fight with it and work through it on their sort of on their own terms in a way, without feeling like they're being directed, they have to go a certain direction. Um, and that's that can be uncomfortable for so many parents of like, get them to do this. And it's like, if we're having somebody who's using substances or something, it's like, what, is the relief that they're trying to find, or that they hope they're trying to find in whatever drug or addictive behavior. And if you can find what they're trying to find, you can start to tease out the substance, and go for the true emotion and vulnerability and work from there.

Brenda  36:14

Which has to be so powerful when for a teenager to have somebody to have that conversation with. Because that's not a conversation that you typically as a parent are equipped to have, you know, we want things to be fixed. And we want you to stop this and do that. And it really takes a special person, especially if you're able to do that at a skate park or wherever you guys are hanging out with them. Yeah, just would make so much more sense.

Lori Thompson  36:46

Yeah, absolutely. A skate park, playing tennis, on a hike, and maybe they don't want to leave their room. Maybe parents are like they're playing video games too much. Yeah. Okay. They're like, Oh, great. Yeah, this is gonna work great. My kids not going to go out of the house. So maybe you start in the room with the video game, teach me how to play it. What do you get out of it? What's the connection for you? Hmm, could you get that somewhere else? Do you have a desire to get that somewhere else? Right? Well, this is like nothing else. What else have you tried? 

Lori Thompson  37:23

And you just have to, like, broaden that exposure little by little to you can help them find feel safe to explore other avenues? For sure, yeah. And I think it's like, and with parents, we're a family systems approach. And it depends, you know, greatly on the, on the issues. And I'm working with the family, and they have had some really heavy generational grief. That that's manifested through a current life situation. So it's, maybe it's the life situation, but maybe it was all the systematic grief that was building and is now imploded. And so you, we didn't even expect to go this direction. But it's really digging up and allowing people have who have run so fast and hard through their life. And then COVID has stopped them dead in their tracks, and they can't get away from themselves. So it does come on to the surface. So, in a lot of ways it's like, nothing's wrong. This is this is like, this is actually an opportunity to sit and be with and move through the emotions that you've been avoiding this whole time. This is an immense opportunity for healing. It doesn't feel that way. But it is.

Brenda  38:59

Yeah. Yeah. I don't think most people would say that. So it's interesting to hear, because it makes sense when you say that. But I think so many people are just like, Oh, this is the worst this is, you know, I can't get anything done. I can't do anything. And to think about it, it kind of the flip it on its head is really interesting. So when the mentors working with parents, because I love the approach of just talking with a kid and not forcing them and not, you know, presenting them with, here's three choices, which one do you want, you know, to make this change? Are you then also helping parents learn how to do that? Is that part of the parent mentoring process or what goes on?

Lori Thompson  39:43

Yeah, so mentors work with the adolescents and young adults directly, and the parent coaches work and support the parents directly. So oftentimes, on occasion, when it makes sends the mentors will talk to the parents, but generally, the mentors don't talk to the parents because it really helps the adolescent or young adult feel like they have a true alliance with their mentor, like their mentors, just not as streamlined communication to their parents and, and parent coaches and mentors communicate frequently throughout the week. As a team, so the parents definitely get an edge, it's where they are, and what do they want? And sometimes it's, you know, it's they might be finding, like, maybe the kid has not had any boundaries, and is just running loose. So maybe it is appropriate to coach the parents to say, you get three options, choose one of them.

Brenda  40:51

Yeah.

Lori Thompson  40:53

It depends. So yeah, definitely. The the parents and mentor and we have, we have family meetings, give or take once a month, when it's appropriate, to sort of all come together and share like, what are what are our goals as a family? What are the parents goals? What are the adolescent young adults goals, and how do we support each other, and all those goals, and here's what your parents are learning to support you, like, what is helpful for you, from your parents, parents, what is helpful from your adolescent young adult, you know, for them, for you to support them. 

Lori Thompson  41:36

So it's a collaborative conversation, and not always agreed upon. A lot of times not agreed upon. And so it's working our way through that, because when you you know, oftentimes, it'll go back and forth. And I'm like, this is really interesting, because you guys, I feel like you're exactly on the same page, and you want exactly the same thing. You just have different thoughts, and feelings about ways to get there. But if we truly look at this, everybody wants the same thing. So then they're like, oh, my gosh, we do, we really do. And the kids like, actually I do, it can be pretty transformational. And it's, you know, it's really about parents feeling like they have to be the steadfast boundary holder, which, you know, boundaries are appropriate in certain situations, absolutely. But sometimes we're in that role, we, you know, block off our ability to be vulnerable. And when we flee our capacity to be vulnerable, we flee capacity to feel emotion. And emotion is, is, you know, the key to connection with their kids. So we just have to keep that in mind.

Brenda  42:57

The kind of holding space idea is so important because, you know, having lived through having my son in wilderness, and then he ended up going to residential treatment, and then running away from that residential treatment. So our, our situation was a little different when he came home, but it feels like it makes, it would be so nice to have kind of a safety net around you in that period. Because you just feel so vulnerable, like, oh, my gosh, I just, you know, my kid was there for eight or nine or whatever, weeks or months, and then they come back home. And it's like, how do I act? And what do I say, and everybody, at least in our house, everybody was on eggshells. So that that period of time is just so tense sometimes, and to have kind of a Sherpa to help you through it would just be amazing.

Lori Thompson  43:51

Yeah, and you realize, like, your son, they're different, but you don't necessarily know they're different. And its so new to them, and sometimes coming eventually, they probably come back to that environment where all this started. And that's a scary, scary place to be as it is as adolescent young adult and a parent and it's just walking through it day by day. And trying not to look into it, like catastrophizing - careful not to catastrophize. But also not putting your head in the sand like, oh, everything's okay. And avoiding. It's a fine line and we're gonna, we kind of either, you know, it's not too tight, not too loose, but we balanced generally between one or the other. Yeah. And it's trying to help parents find that middle ground and, and helping be, you know, an objective lens with them, I'd say.

Lori Thompson  45:01

Because it's definitely a journey alongside, for sure, because it's so personal. And it's so hard for them. And it's definitely like, seeing like when they're like, oh, I'm a bad parent, because my kids doing this or that and, and negating some of those ideas, that is not the case, you're actually very strong. And being vulnerable to allow help to come in. We all need support at one point or another in our lives, and anybody who says they don't, you know, it's being able to, to seek that help and just walk the path as it is, and being with them in those very uncomfortable situations. 

Lori Thompson  45:51

Because right, we come in, and it's not always that we can say, everything's going to be okay. And I think that that's a relief of like, oh, this might not turn out the way we all want it to in this moment. And we're going to walk the path with you, and be there every step of the way, until we come out the other side. And at any point in time, you know, our program is, they need a higher level of care, we're gonna support the parents throughout that process, and finding that higher level of care. And there's, oh, I can't tell you, sitting with parents, and they're, they're on the phone with me when they're like, they walked into my son's room. And they're, I don't like this term, either. They're gooning him right now. They walk into my son's room, and they say, Come on, we're going to wilderness, and parents are sobbing on the phone, like, is this the right decision, like you're being very strong. They're gonna be okay, they're safe. It's okay. And us being able to be there during those processes. You know, that's very hard. And that support is so necessary for parents. So, you know, it runs the gamut in ways to support families. 

Brenda  46:03

It sounds like it. Yeah, the the gooning process - we could do a whole podcast on that. That's very traumatic for kids and parents. But yes, yeah, that's so good, though, to know that, that you kind of stick with people throughout that because it is a journey, and one day is fabulous. And then the next day, like, everything just falls apart. And so it's it's important to have that and and the guilt thing, you know, I have a community of moms who are all going through this and the guilt thing comes up all the time. I feel so guilty if I had done this, if I had done that. So maybe hearing from someone like you who has been around this for so long that it is not your fault. We did not make our kids this way. You know, I try to tell my moms that all the time. But I think it's it's helpful to hear from, you know, a therapist, like you and somebody who's really in it that, you know, we're just all on this path. We have to stay strong.

47:10

Yeah, we were on this path. And we have to support each other and stay strong. We started in, I think it was the end of March a parent support group that I run. And yes, I think it's it's it's wonderful to hear from a therapist and have that clinical support is necessary. And like you say, you have a community support of moms, which is invaluable. And I think people have found the parent support group invaluable. Because right, I can say so much. But when parents are like, that happened to me, too. And right, you feel so alone and so isolated when you're maybe you're watching your friends, friends graduate from high school, or GED, they're getting sports scholarships to college, and you're like, Oh, yeah, and it's just so hard. 

Lori Thompson  49:03

And most of the time, it's not what it looks like, from the outside and pretty much every family and and there's a beauty in that vulnerability and that humaneness once you get inside there and find you know, it's it's hard to be in a family, it's hard to be a parent, it's hard to be a kid it's life is hard. And walking through it together, you can find those beautiful, sweet moments that take your breath away and, and finding that path after going through such a struggle is is you know, it's it's invaluable and having parents being able to share, you know, some parents are at the beginning of their journey, and some people are on the other side of it. That's part of wonder. Some people have already been through treatment and they're like, yeah, this support is just we're rocking on, and some people are like, we don't know what's going to happen and nobody knows But But having parents that can support each other no matter what point they are in their journey has been really helpful. 

Brenda  50:08

Yeah, that's, that's awesome. It's so so important. You just feel like because you do feel like you're the only one, because people still don't talk about it. The stigma is still there. And, and so that's just such a relief. At least I know for me when I was going through it, and I, you know, I would find one other parent, I'd be like, just latched on to them. Okay, you get it, you understand what it's like! Is there just, knowing that you've been doing this for over 15 years, and you've been dealing with families, is there something if you could have a billboard that would kind of say something that you would want parents to hear or kids to hear that a scenario that you see all the time? Or kind of a question that you get asked all the time? Is there something that you would say, this is what I'd really love to say to people based on on all of your experience and your wisdom.

Lori Thompson  51:06

I mean, it probably goes back to what I was just saying is that it's so hard. And sometimes they feel defeated, or lost, or like, they want to, like the guilt they feel, when they're like, I'm done. I'm exhausted. And that makes me a terrible mom, or a terrible dad, or a terrible parent. And that is not true. I mean, I think that's so hard for parents to be like, I'm tired, I'm really tired. And that does not mean that they're giving up on their kid. And that's definitely not true, we go through a variety of move motions. And I think the hardest thing is sometimes for healing to happen, we have to set really hard boundaries with their kids and hold those. And in a loving, compassionate way, and having the you know, the, our process with the parents and holding that, and the mentor there when the kid, you know, doesn't, you know, maybe it's like, all we're doing is giving our kid money. And all they're doing is going out and buying drugs with it. If we don't give them money, they're gonna go get in another way. And I can't stand that thought of what would they do? If they did, if that happened, and having parents try to navigate that piece of have of holding a boundary and trusting the process that they'll come out the other side? You know, we don't have all the answers. But that can be a very scary place for parents. And I think it's, it's use your support, trust the process, when you don't trust the process, process that. Use your support.

Brenda  53:08

Wow, that's great. What do you love most about what you do?

Lori Thompson  53:15

that's a, that's a really hard one, you know. And one obvious answer is, when you see parents come in and feel like they're at such a loss. And towards the end, when when things seem to have balanced out. And they're more on their way in life and their kid is more engaged in and and has found by their life purpose, or friendships or self esteem. Like when that happens, then that trajectory? That could be my answer. But I think it's, I think I like the most when you're able to sit with those parents or kids in the unexpected hard places, and be there with them in those because it's like, right when they get to us, I've said this before that it's not their first rodeo. And there have been so many times where it's gotten so hard. And they might have been in a process where they're like, this isn't working, I can't help you. But because it's gone too far, it's not working. And in that moment, you know, when you kind of get to that moment, but what if you sit in a little longer, and it's the moment when you sit in a little longer, and it's like, everyone's always left me when it got to this point, because it's happened again and again and again. And it's getting to that point and not leaving, and then knowing that it's not right. It's sure it's my job. Sure, it's my career, but it's about another human being. And when you're touching, you know the emotional content that they really, they've almost gotten to the root of but never truly, because they push so hard that everyone's like, I'm out. But if you're not out, and you stay in that point, that's so uncomfortable for them and can oftentimes so uncomfortable for me. Like that. That's the root of connection. And those are the moments I feel like, you know, it's this is life is precious, and every moment is precious in being with them, when they think everyone's going to leave, that right there creates connection. And when you feel a sense of connection, that's what starts to build the feeling of I am lovable, I am capable, I do have self esteem. So I'd say it's in those moments.

Brenda  55:51

Hmm, that gave me goosebumps. That's amazing. Yeah, well, we're so so fortunate that there are people like you that do what you do, because it is hard as a parent to know, you know, we're just not trained in that I think there should be mandatory parent training, when your kid turns about 11. Like, everybody has to learn these skills. So to have somebody like you to watch and to learn from and to be kind of a role model to a parent, but then to, like you said to be there for that kid, when everyone else has given up. And everyone else has said, this hurts too much. This is too hard. That's where that is. That's where the magic happens. And they feel like, okay, this person is going to be with me like, this is my person. It's so powerful.

Lori Thompson  56:38

Yeah, yeah. And it's like, you can have all the training in the world, you can be the best clinical and have all the education in the world. But unless you have that vulnerable piece, and you're really willing and able to be vulnerable with with them in those situations, that that's the key is really seeing all of our humans and all of their humaneness. Right.

Brenda  57:06

Yeah. And it's so important to call in help, because I just know from the parent standpoint, you're so emotionally invested that it's very hard to have the same perspective and ability to sit with that kid in the way that somebody like you can, you know, we get so we can overreact because we are so emotionally tied, especially moms, I know, there's that umbilical relationship where you're just like, so to and I watched this with my son, I would watch other professionals talk to him. And I was like, how do they do that? How can they, you know, but it's because they're not so attached and not so lost and all the emotion that they could be just a lot smarter about it than I was?

57:57

Yeah, I mean, there's just a different lens there. Yeah. For for sure. Like, you know, I've had family members say can you, counsel, my niece? It's like, absolutely not. I mean, for a multitude of ethical reasons, but, they're very emotional and a familial tie. Like, it doesn't work like that, it absolutely doesn't work like that.

Lori Thompson  58:26

And, you know, I just have to say, like, from, from what you've shared with me and what you've been through, and, and starting this podcast, and working with moms and everything you're doing, I just, I really respect and honor you getting the word out and helping families and through your own experience, I think that's invaluable in this in the world that you're putting out there. 

Brenda  58:53

Thank you. Yeah, it's, it's really interesting work. I have to say, because you're meeting people at a time at a very, very difficult time in their life. And, you know, I had a mom, I was talking to this morning, who's you know, our sons living in a tent somewhere downtown. And what do you do with that? He just turned 19. You know, it's like, it's so, so painful. And unless you been there, nobody, you just can't relate. And so you just feel like you're just lost in this ocean of pain and sadness and scared, you know, being scared. And so it's, I just think it's really important to be able to let people know that there are other people out there who are going through this and that, you know, I can't fix your child. I can't do any of that. But I can be there for you and to hold that space for you. And sometimes that's really all you need. Because I have found that people are incredibly strong and resilient, even when they don't know that they are and, you know, especially moms for some reason. And we can pull it from the depth of I don't know where the strength comes from sometimes. But if we're given enough support, we can really do amazing things. But it's very difficult to do on your own. 

Lori Thompson  1:00:14

Yeah, absolutely. I've seen it again and again. 

Brenda  1:00:20

Lori, thank you a million times over for this. This has been so amazingly helpful. And I would love to stay in touch and just see all the great things that you're doing and how everything's gonna play out with COVID. And the, the new the new things that we're facing, and I just thank you so much for being here for for the listeners.

Lori Thompson  1:00:40

Absolutely. Thank you. Yeah, it changes daily. So we'll, we'll stay in touch.

Brenda  1:00:48

I'm so grateful to Lori for having shared her time and her expertise with us. She's a very loving and kind soul. And you can see that the clients that she works with gets so much out of her. If you are a mom, who is saying huh, I wonder who else is listening to this podcast because this totally resonated with me, I would invite you to visit my website, BrendaZane.com, you will find a lot of information there about a private membership community that I host for moms just like you. So if you're listening, you probably have a kid who is misusing substances, or maybe they're experimenting or having some emotional challenges. And you will find a whole tribe of us over at The Stream. And so I would love to have you join. It's a pay-what-you-can model so we accept absolutely everybody. And if you need that support, we're there for you. So I hope you will check that out. Thank you for listening and I will meet you back here next week.