FOO Fighter: Deprogramming Our “Family Of Origin” Triggers For More Effective Parenting, with Dr. Crystal Collier
Host: Brenda Zane, brenda@brendazane.com
Instagram: @hopestreamcommunity
Guest: Dr. Crystal Collier, Author, The Neurowhereabouts Guide
Free ebook: “HINDSIGHT: 3 Things I Wish I Knew When My Son Was Misusing Drugs, by Brenda Zane. Download here
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About this episode:
My guest today is Dr. Crystal Collier, an award-winning therapist, and author working with adolescents and adults suffering from mental illness, behavioral problems, and substance use disorders. But her experience is not entirely academic. What made her so interested in recovery was her own misuse of alcohol beginning at age 12 and the difficult times that followed. After finding recovery at a young age, Crystal had the same question about herself that Hopestream Community parents often have about their own children: How did an otherwise smart kid with a great family end up making terrible decisions about substance use?
Resources for parents:
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Before I tell you about today's episode, let's talk for just a second about gratitude. This is top of mind for me right now because I'm having some back issues and sleeping is almost impossible and I can't really bend over to put on socks or shoes and it is super painful and frustrating.
So many times every day I am thinking about my back and what did I do to it and why is it hurting? How can I fix it? How can I pick up that thing on the floor? It just occupies a huge part of my brain all day. But until my back started to hurt. How many times a day do you think?
I said to myself, Gosh, I'm so grateful to my back today for not hurting and allowing me to do all the things that I want to do right? I didn't ever do that. So when something becomes really painful and causes us a lot of frustration and occupies a big part of our time and attention, we just start to narrow in on that thing.
00;02;01;28
Brenda
Does this sound like anything familiar to you? So I'm going to ask you to do a little experiment with me. I ask this from time to time. So thanks for playing along. I'd like you to pause the podcast in a second and mentally visualize in your mind three things that you're grateful for that you may be taking for granted.
Like me, with my back. Just three. It doesn't have to take more than a minute and then restart the episode. Well, I trust that you were curious enough to actually do this little experiment, and I would encourage you to do this every day and see what happens. Maybe you're willing to commit to doing it daily for a week, maybe a month, and then just see.
I'll be willing to bet a lot of money that it's not going to make things worse and that there's a good chance that you're going to see a lift in your mood. And your ability to cope with negative situations is just a guess. So if you do try this, let me know what happens. You can always send me a message from my website, Brenda's Income.
My three things that I'm grateful for that I usually take for granted are a healthy body, a safe, warm home to live in. And my dog, Roscoe. See, it's pretty simple. Okay, we are going to do a little bit of a pivot today and talk about some stuff that you might have to be dealing with as a parent that comes from your family of origin.
00;03;29;10
Brenda
These could be things like core beliefs that you hold negative thought patterns, unhealthy behaviors, or coping skills that you picked up along the way of life. And these are things that we may not even realize have impacted our parenting style. And you're going to hear about why sometimes we end up as helicopter parents or sometimes even worse, as hovercraft parents, or we may be stuck in a victim triangle.
I was fortunate to find Dr. Crystal Collier, who is a person in long term recovery, a therapist and an educator who's been working with adolescents and adults suffering from mental illness, behavioral problems and substance use disorders since 1991. Her area of expertise includes adolescent brain development prevention, programing, parent coaching, addiction and family of origin work. And she also trains new clinicians.
Dr. Collier's comprehensive prevention model, which teaches the neurodevelopmental effects of risky behavior to children, teens, teachers and parents, was selected for the 2015 Prevention and Education Commendation from the National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependance. She's received awards for her work in the field of addiction from the Texas Association of Addiction Professionals. The Association of Alternative Peer Groups, and was acknowledged as Counselor of the year by the Houston Counseling Association.
She wrote a book called The Neuro Whereabouts Guide, which offers a validated neurodevelopmental approach to help parents raise their kids to refrain from engaging in high risk behaviors. I really wish I would have had that back in 2014. Her book is available on Amazon and there's a link to it in the show notes as well as a link to Dr. Collier's website and so grateful to have gotten a bit of time with her.
00;05;21;01
Brenda
She's super real, incredibly knowledgeable and fun to talk with. So please take a listen. Here's me and Dr. Crystal Collier. Enjoy.
Dr. Collier, welcome to Hope Stream. This is going to be a fantastic conversation. It's one I haven't had on. Well, I'm sure we can talk about a lot of stuff, but really, I kind of wanted to focus in on your expertise in family of origin things and the relationship with substance use, all that good stuff. So welcome to the podcast.
00;05;55;25
Crystal
Thank you. It is such an honor to be here. I really feel excited that you chose me to do this. So thank you.
00;06;02;02
Brenda
Yeah. Why don't you give us just a brief background on you? How in the world did you become interested in psychology and all the crazy stuff around human beings that we are? And then how did you get to what you're doing today?
00;06;16;10
Crystal
Well, it started really young for me when, you know, I grew up with a mom who struggled with, you know, relationship problems, her own family of origin issues, her own mental health struggles. And I really took good care of her a lot. And so that kind of set me up to be a therapist in one sense. And then when I was about 12 years old, I took my first drink of alcohol and that just kicked in genes.
And I didn't know that I had. And I started using it and had a pretty bad overdose by the time I was 18, was able to survive it, thank God, and get into treatment. And so I've been sober since February 3rd, 89. And when I got into recovery, I was so confused about why, like this good kid who's pretty smart, has a fantastic family, Why did I make those decisions?
So I started studying everything I could get my hands on, really to answer that question. But it was a cool time to study because all of these really cool brain studies were being published. And so the information that's in my book is really everything I've learned about risky behavior and mental health and how it affects the brain in my, you know, 25, 26 years of studying and being a therapist.
00;07;50;02
Brenda
I think your perspective being in long term recovery is so important to be able to really relate, because if you if you aren't that person, you just don't know, Right? You don't have the the inside scoop. You don't have the street cred like we don't know. So that's one reason why I was so excited to have you come on.
Because as parents, you know, obviously some parents are in recovery and they understand, but a lot of them don't. And so it's helpful to get that lens when we're looking at issues. And so. Wow. So since 89, how does that feel?
00;08;28;06
Crystal
It feels awesome. And especially when people say, how old are you? You know, and I'm 52, but I think one of the reasons why I still look young besides dying my hair is right that I you know, I have lived almost my entire life sober and not putting toxins in my body and learning how to be kind of the healthiest human that I can be.
So it feels I feel so humbly grateful for it that, you know, and I still go to meetings. I sponsor beautiful women in recovery and really enjoy it.
00;09;06;23
Brenda
Oh, I love that. Well, they're lucky to have you as a sponsor and helping them through that time. And I think it's really cool that there is. Now, this is a little off topic, but that's how I go. So I think it's cool now that there is such a big, really vocal recovery community too, especially with women. Right?
With like she recovers and all the books that are out. Do you see that women are a little bit more like I look at it as a lifestyle change as much as people who are considering themselves in recovery because it's just a healthier lifestyle. And I think there's a lot out there now about your skin's going to be better, your, you know, you lose weight.
Like there's just so many practical benefits to not not putting toxins in your body. Do you see that with the the women that you work with?
00;09;57;17
Crystal
Oh, so much so. You know, I read every book I can get my hands on that comes out about recovery. And it's cool because, you know, like the alcohol inoculation and she's in recovery but that the naked mine she's not in recovery but she doesn't drink. I mean, I love that they're educating us on the myth.
00;10;21;06
Brenda
That.
00;10;22;10
Crystal
That, you know, the myths of how alcohol is supposed to help. And what it really does is that it hurts in so many ways. And so it's really great to see that, especially since women not only process alcohol differently, but we also have a lot of trauma. 80% of people, women in recovery, have trauma histories, so they go hand in hand.
But it's really great to see that we are normalizing sobriety. Right? Because what I tell the kids that I work with is that you can rely on something like alcohol or marijuana to make you calm, to give you more social skills or to sleep, but then you're relying on alcohol or marijuana to do all those things. When if you engaged in the tough part of learning those skills, which can be very difficult and uncomfortable, then you literally grow long networks of neurons in your brain for those skills.
Yeah. And then you don't have to rely on anything else but your own body, your own brain, and your own support system to help you, you know, adult and live life.
00;11;34;15
Brenda
Yeah. Do they get that? Because I you know, I think it's so challenging. And I'm thinking of all the parents that are listening who are like, I've tried every message. I've, you know, you're just trying to get through this brain like, this is not great for your brain. Yes. It's going to work in the short term to help you sleep, like you said, or anxiety or whatever it is.
But if you play the movie forward, it doesn't usually end well. What is it? Are there messages that you found, especially with like adolescents that get through?
00;12;08;14
Crystal
So I do a lot of here's your brain on drugs, but literally showing memories instead of a fried egg in a pan. Good call. That has a big impact, right? Yes. I did not get it when I was a kid and saw those. But I think I have a lot of empathy for our parents today because, you know, our kids grew up in this generation where, you know, legalization was coming on board.
Perceived risks is going down, and a lot of parenting practices are more permissive than they ever have been or over functioning, you know, the other extreme. And so I think the result of what we're seeing in our you know, our current kids that are in college and a little bit older than that is that they didn't have a lot of really good structure and messages about this young enough and often enough.
00;13;07;05
Brenda
Right. Right.
00;13;08;21
Crystal
I want to hold everybody accountable for what gets done and what doesn't get done. But there also are generational effects that we don't have a lot of control over. And I still have remnants of parents that say, you know, is it that bad? Like I drank in high school or I smoked weed in college? What's the big deal?
Because they just they're really uninformed formed about how illicit the marijuana is today, the cannabis products and also how dangerous the binge drinking culture is for young people as that unfortunately a rite of passage. But I got to say though, I just spoke to a group of seniors yesterday at a local school here in Houston, and it was so cool to hear them say things like, Oh yeah, I'm not doing that.
You know, that's not my rite of passage. I'm going to choose something else I picked out of college because they're not they don't have a reputation for being a party school. It was so cool to hear this generation, this newer generation talking about, nope, I want to choose something different. It gives me so much hope and excitement.
00;14;25;19
Brenda
Oh my gosh, I'm so happy to hear that. And I love. I had never thought about using sort of a rites of passage as a parent, as almost like a carrot. Right. Like instead of, okay, everybody's going to go to this thing and get wasted, maybe we could, you know, offer something else as that rite of passage to say, Hey, you've done amazing.
You're graduating from high school. Here's I don't know, whatever it is. But that's that's a really interesting way to think about it. Like you said, when you started using alcohol, I think you said at 12 and then you were kind of confounded, like, how does somebody like me end up needing to go to treatment and all this? I think that's a very common situation with a lot of parents.
I know I was there, I was looking at my son. I'm like, Wait a minute, He has everything he could possibly need. How is this happening? And so I know I read Enough to Be Dangerous on your website about family of origin matters and kind of how that plays into this. So I'm wondering if you could just elucidate us a little bit on what is when somebody says maybe your therapist has used this on you before and you didn't know what they meant and you were afraid to ask.
So now I'm going to ask because I ask all the questions, What does that really mean? Family of origin? And then how does that play into this whole issue of families who are really struggling with young people using substances or with parents using substances, for that matter?
00;15;59;14
Crystal
The way that I conceptualize it is graphically and if you like, you've seen my book, The Neuro Whereabouts Guide.
00;16;07;02
Brenda
Yes, I love it.
00;16;08;23
Crystal
Thanks. I really did that purposely. I wanted to write it in infographic style so it would at least be fun to read because I don't read very much anymore. I listen on Audible, which is also why I recorded it on Audible. But good God, you listen to me talk for 14 hours straight because it's a big book. But when I was writing my my other book, Food mapping, which I it's interesting because as a therapist, I started hearing people talk about the negative core belief, a negative feeling pattern that triggered them, and some copying mechanisms that were not working.
There were dysfunctional coping mechanisms. And I would ask them, you know, tell me when you learned that or when you first thought that or first felt that and they would travel back in time to their childhoods, to messages that they got from their parents, their families or their societies or their religion. And so I would draw this button on the board and I would draw a line to negative thoughts like negative core beliefs, feeling patterns and behaviors.
And then we would figure out, okay, what did you learn that's not serving you? Then where do you store this energy in your body? And then once we mapped your button, how can we create new healthy core beliefs? Feeling and thinking patterns? So you know what I see a lot in people who are in recovery is that when they were kids, events happened and they have been may have been like big T traumas or little T traumas or just something that was said to them every day.
And they thought, felt and did to cope with that was I'm not good enough. I feel shame. I have to be perfect in order to receive love or I, you know, I have to just don't talk, don't deal, don't feel and then don't trust. So that's one of the big ones. Is that unhealthy or dysfunctional family rule? Don't talk, don't deal, don't trust, don't feel.
00;18;27;09
Crystal
And then if you grow up thinking that's what you do, right, Right. Then you grow up telling your kids, Oh, don't talk about that. Don't know, can't cry up. No. You know. And so if you don't allow kids a way to have their feelings, to process their emotions and to cope in really healthy ways, you may create a food button in your kid.
We install them in them, right? And then those coping mechanisms can turn into escapism in video game addiction, drug use or withdrawal depression. And so but you don't know until you go in and really map them and then expose yourself to recovery. So that's why what you said earlier was so cool, because you had shared with me that your son got into recovery and then you were like, Oh, you want me to go to like, what?
You know? And that's so critical. Yeah. Like you're the one who installed his food button.
00;19;36;20
Brenda
Yes, that's true.
00;19;38;06
Crystal
I never thought about it that way that you did, but you also installed some really good food buttons, Right. That are helpful. But you may have also installed some ones that are not so helpful because you had ones of your own.
00;19;51;21
Brenda
Right.
00;19;52;17
Crystal
And and so it's I think it's important to hold everybody accountable for the good and the bad. Right. Is is an own that peace and being able to change those thoughts, feelings and behavioral patterns into something healthier.
00;20;09;20
Brenda
Really interesting. I never thought about that sort of there are probably good so we say food family of origin buttons like oh this is how you can cope with, you know, just uncomfortable feelings or whatever. So we probably had a few really positive ones and we did a really good job in some areas. And then we probably didn't do such a great job in other areas because we just didn't.
00;20;34;23
Crystal
Know.
00;20;35;21
Brenda
Or our own family of origin pattern was not healthy. So then of course we transmit that to our kids because we don't really know any better. I'm wondering, are there sort of kind of coping mechanisms or things that you see that people don't even recognize that they're doing that are really like, you see that is a big glaring button.
And we're like, What?
00;20;57;18
Crystal
Sure.
00;20;58;15
Brenda
What are some of those?
00;20;59;15
Crystal
Yeah, I'm thinking of somebody I just saw yesterday, you know, there's a really typical one appearance today of over functioning for kids. You know, we affectionately call it helicopter parenting. And, you know, if it gets really bad, it's hovercraft parenting at MIT. What we do is we get fearful and we get busy. And a lot of times over function, ours came from families where there was dysfunction and they moved into that family hero role and over a function by taking care of their family or being the shining star for their family, that could then take the focus off of the dysfunction those kids grow up to meet people who under function because we fit dysfunctional
so well together. And sometimes those under functional could have drug or alcohol problems of their own passed down. Those genetics and then moms or dads who over function for kids create and they set up a situation where their kids don't have to do much and or get to do things that they maybe you shouldn't do. And of course, a young developing brain is like, Yeah, my mom lets me drink or my mom does all my laundry for me forever more.
And and then they grow up normalizing drinking and drinking at a young age, and then they get to college and they're like, How do I do my laundry? And you'll even look like little things like that. Don't create a kid who has high self-esteem and worse, right? What we know is that what builds self-esteem in worth is self-efficacy.
And that feeling that you can go out into the world and accomplish something, you know, like I get all my laundry done in one day, I'm like, Yeah, I a bad ass, You know, like, if you don't ever feel that from the little or the big things because somebody did it all for you, you get stuck. And I call that the double bind and overindulge child.
00;23;08;27
Crystal
The double bind is, Oh my God, You know, my mom did everything for me. I can't be mad at her, but my mom did everything for me. I'm so pissed at her, right? You know, like, what do you do with that as a kid?
00;23;30;29
Brenda
Hi. I'm taking a quick break because I want to let you know about the private online community I created and host for moms who have kids misusing drugs or alcohol. It's where I hang out between the episodes, so I wanted to share a little bit about it. This place is called the Stream, and it isn't a Facebook group.
It's completely private away from all social media sites where you start to take care of yourself. Because through all of this, who is taking care of you? The stream is a place where we teach the craft, approach and skills to help you have better conversations and relationships, and we help you get as physically, mentally and spiritually healthy as possible so that you can be even stronger for your son or daughter.
You can join us free for two weeks to see if it's the right kind of support for you and learn more about all the benefits that you get as a member at the Stream community. Com And I'll see you there. Now let's get back to the conversation. If parents are sort of, you know, now exposed to therapy or they're being exposed to kind of different ways of thinking because their kids are struggling and they're like, whoa, we need to get some help in here.
How do you do your own as the parent, Do your own family of origin issues start to get triggered when you're looking at your child who is coming home drunk or stoned out of their mind at the dinner table and you're like, Should I say something? Or do I just stay quiet? Like, is that a common thing that we we start to get triggered as well?
00;25;14;02
Crystal
Absolutely. Well, should I stay quiet? That's the don't talk, don't feel, don't deal rule. And of course, we should confront that right away, you know, But sometimes we learned confrontation in a really shaming manner. We didn't learn assertiveness because we grew up with aggression and so figuring out how to communicate in in the most functional, validating way with kids is a skill.
I mean, I had to go to therapy school really to learn how to do that, right? And so that's why I really love I put a lot of scripts in my book for parents. So you would literally know what to what comes out of your mouth with a kid because we just we don't know a lot of those things.
So, you know, it's important to to understand that it's not just your food, it could be your ruta or COO. I call it different little acronyms because it could be your culture of origin. You know, here in Texas, good. A lot of a lot of young women who grew up in a very machismo culture where women were not supposed to work, they were supposed to stay home.
And so a lot of issues come up with, you know, when they grow up and they want to work and be independent and not get married and how they're shamed for that, it could be, you know, religion of origin rules that that don't allow you to be the sexual orientation that you are or, you know, maybe it's even societal rules that tell you messages that reinforce negative roles that you learned at home.
00;26;55;19
Crystal
So, you know, and not not like I said, not all of those are bad. The majority really are good and functional. But when we when we learn something that creates a negative pattern that doesn't serve us, then it can really create long networks in your brain for those skills. And so that's what I one of the biggest things that I think humans need to understand about doing their own recovery work and their own therapy is that it's harder to change your patterns the older you are.
Think about your network, your wiring in your brain as you grew and developed. All of those are like rebar poured under concrete, you know, many scaffolding layers. And those are your networks. They're really old from when you're really young. That's why I think it helps to map those to understand, Oh, I was five when this happened, and when my food button gets pushed, I regressed to this stage and then I see my kid going through something at the same age and it triggers that button.
I'll never forget when I my therapist asked me to do a timeline of when my traumas happened in the events that were an uncomfortable, unfortunate. And then he asked me to do my mother's and I did it, and then looked at them in the same, you know, above each other. And they happened the things that happened in my life was carbon copy of traumas and events that happened in hers.
Oh, wow. It's so freaking scary when you think about generational trauma and issues that we go through and then how that affects the next generation. So if you're substance use or your sexual abuse started when you were 15 or 16, when your child goes out to parties or starts to date, it will trigger old negative feelings and patterns.
00;29;06;25
Crystal
And in that triggered state, you may not show up as the best parent. So having a support group, having a partner who gets it and is in recovery, really having your own recovery program makes you so much more of a solid human and parent.
00;29;26;01
Brenda
Right? That's when you start to if you can be aware of that and say, Oh, wait, I've seen this happen. I'm starting to get triggered, I need to work on myself. But then also, can you community like I'm trying to think of how you can break that generational cycle and say, okay, I grew up like this. This is the way we dealt with things.
This is what happened. But I don't want that to continue with you, Johnny or Susie or whoever it is. What is the best way to deal with that? Is it family therapy or are there things that you can do if you're the aware parent and you're working on it and and you recognize these things? How do we start to break those cycles so that our kids aren't saying the exact same thing to our grandkids someday?
00;30;14;09
Crystal
Sure. Well, there's a beautiful parallel process that happens when when a child or an adult child goes to treatment or gets into recovery. One of the best things a parent can do to support that kiddo is get into their own therapy or their own recovery group, because then what you see is that you like, like I said, a beautiful parallel process that happens when you start to understand the roots and origins of why you made the choices that you made in your own parenting or your own life and your child's going through the same kind of process as they get into recovery and they start uncovering those issues for themselves.
It also is one of the best mentoring things and modeling things that you can do. A lot of times I see parents that are like, Oh no, it's not my problem, it's them, fix them either. They don't really understand what the family disease means. And I have to say I can't. It's kind of a pet peeve term family disease, because it's really a systemic issue.
You know, it's it's that one person has something, but there are all kinds of factors that influence that something. Yeah. And there are psychological, emotional as well as behavioral like substance use or mental health. So if you as a parent say, hey, I'm going to therapy, I'm going to expect you to go to that says so much to a child that you're willing to own and take a look at your part.
You're required or expecting them to do the same thing. You can grow right along with them as opposed to being that identified patient whose parent drops them off on their therapist's sofa like a bad kitten by the nape of the neck. Like fix her. She's the problem. That kind of shame could take years of uncovering before that, you know, before you get better.
00;32;23;28
Brenda
Yeah. It's so true. And I think it's just having been there, having gone through this process, it is it is really confusing. And, you know, I've asked several therapists, why do you think people avoid going to therapy? They say, well, because if you do it right, you're going to probably have to make some changes in yourself that are going to feel pretty uncomfortable at first.
So it's like, oh, wait, I got to do this, too. And you have to be willing. But when for me, when I look at the trade off, the trade off is, well, if I don't do that, as I continue in my same patterns, if I continue doing the same thing I've been doing, how can I expect that my kid's ever going to change if they're young?
You know, let's say that they're in the home and also I'm never going to get better, even if I think nothing's wrong. Obviously there's work we can all do, but it does require work.
00;33;25;01
Crystal
It does. And if you don't get better and you're doing something that's not the healthiest, you know, behavior, what might end up is your kids estranged from you or withdraw from you or set boundaries and limits because they're triggered by you. So being able to read and I tell you, man, it's an ego deflating process, but being able and being willing to go through that means the potential for closer, healthier relationships down the road.
00;33;57;15
Brenda
Yeah, that's true. I do see that with families. And it's so heartbreaking when the the young person gets healthier and then they are the ones that do the distancing and they're the ones that do have to put up the boundaries, say, Mom, I can't be around you.
00;34;12;21
Crystal
You trigger me or.
00;34;13;16
Brenda
Mom, you know, I'm not coming for Thanksgiving. I'm finally learning how to set a boundary and I'm not coming for Thanksgiving. And that is so heartbreaking. And, you know, it's just it's one of those things that, like you said, it's ego deflating and you just have to go, okay, I'm going to just work on this. You know, I'm going to work on it.
I have to put in the work. What about and we don't have a ton of time, but I'm curious about a lot of times, again, this experience, maybe your kids starting to experiment or maybe they go into treatment and you start looking at your co-parent and you're like, Oh, I see some things here, right? Either often there's an addiction, you know, or something very evident, or you might start to notice, like all of this starts to come to a head and you're like, Oh, I see this pattern going on with my spouse or my co-parent, my ex spouse.
How in the world do we deal with that? Like, is that a conversation? Just maybe they listen to this podcast, they say, Oh, honey, you need to listen.
00;35;25;03
Crystal
Many, many spouses send my videos to their spouse and say, Watch this. But so there's two answers to that. If they're in their same house. Talk, talk, talk, talk. Keep talking about it. Keep asking not do not use shame, manipulation to get somebody to do their own work, but keep talking about it. That being a good model and a good influence will be influential.
And if they're in a different household, stay in your Hula-Hoop. Right? Because that house not in your hula hoop, you can't control it. You didn't create it. It's not you. Even if your kid goes there for half the time, what you say is what happens in this house is in my control. And here's our family code and. Here's what we do and here's what we believe in.
And I'm going to hold you accountable for following the rules here. And they don't hold you accountable there. There's nothing I can do about that there. But I'm going to hold you accountable here.
00;36;28;10
Brenda
Which is so hard with that control. And I know that's a very common situation where the rules are different.
00;36;35;18
Crystal
Or another parent uses in a different house, which is one of the reasons why that marriage is not intact anymore. Hardest thing for kids to have to figure out how to do.
00;36;46;24
Brenda
Exactly. Exactly. That's that's super hard. And I think a lot of times what what I see, too, is as all of this starts to come to a head and so I call it like the the ghosts are coming out of the closet that it can be really easy as a parent to blame the other parent or to blame the ex to say, oh, see, your your dad's a drinker and look at our kid.
Now he is just like your dad or it's just like you. And that's not helpful either.
00;37;16;26
Crystal
Now because it's shame and it's also putting a child into a triangle, right. In in triangulation is so unhealthy because there's three roles a bad guy, a good guy and a victim, the persecutor, the rescuer and the victim. And if the kid is cornered into that victim role, that victims are unaccountable, they grow up getting the only personal power they can from being a victim and blaming somebody else.
So you know, being able to talk about it openly, how do you feel about it? What that's what's that's like if your dad uses in front of you, how can you be assertive and say, Hey, dad, please don't? What? Helping a child become empowered to talk deal trust feel is is how helpful in that situation like collaborative co-parenting is the research shows is the best way to co-parent and that means never saying anything negative about your partner.
But that doesn't mean your kid can't. They can talk about that all they want. But there may be a point when a parent says, okay, let's go get your therapist, because, you know, this is this hurts me to hear it. I can't help you with it other than empower you. So let me help you.
00;38;37;21
Brenda
That is a very tricky situation. And I didn't experience that personally, but I've seen it so many times and I just feel for the parents who are in that in that triangle. And it's just so difficult. Are there any myths that you get here or questions that you get all the time that you just want to clear up, like once and for all?
This is a myth. You've heard it, It's not true. Or just that one question that gets that's on repeat. You probably put them all in your book, which is probably why you wrote like, But what what's something that you hear a lot from from families or from parents that you're like, let me just let me just tell you, sister, this is how it is.
00;39;21;29
Crystal
Oh, my God. This happens to me. Weekly parents that come to my parent events will say and ask me this question of, well, you know, I don't want to keep them from drinking because then they'll just go crazy because it'll be this forbidden fruit. So I need to teach them how to drink at home, and there's no possible way that I'm going to keep them from drinking.
So I might as well just tell them that it's okay and give them limits. Such a myth. And I really want you to hear I, I have researched this like crazy. I have read every article I can get my hands on going back 60 years. The the research shows that there's no evidence that teaching a child how to drink, setting limits on underage drinking actually protects a child's.
But there are literally 60 to 75 years of prevention, science research, alcohol use, research that says the younger a child drinks or uses anything, the greater their risk of growing up and struggling with a substance use disorder. So delay, delay, delay. Have the rules, expect them to follow the rules, repeat the rules in a really fun way. That's what I do in my tool section is teach you how to create a family code and to use conversation starters just once a month to reiterate the code.
But that the bottom line here is the longer kids delay any substance use, the more their frontal lobe grows executive functioning skills. So every kid gets a little crazy when they go off to college or military or trade, whatever they do. But the kids who go off and get a little crazy that have delayed, they learn from their mistakes sooner.
00;41;25;00
Crystal
They engage in less risky behavior. They just where the novelty wears off sooner because they have a fully formed frontal lobe, whereas the kids who don't have arrested Development and get into trouble and end up with substance use or abuse or dependent problems.
00;41;44;07
Brenda
So good, so good to hear that because that is very common. It is tricky. And what I'm glad you mentioned is it's not just from a like a principal's standpoint, there is biological stuff happening that the sooner that that is introduced to the brain, it slows that down. So thank you for clearing that up. That is huge.
00;42;06;25
Crystal
We have scientific justification to be our kids frontal lobes until they grow one of their own.
00;42;11;17
Brenda
Yes. Yes, exactly. It's a long haul because sometimes it doesn't happen until, you know, we have lots of gray hair and wrinkles by the time they get their frontal lobe developed. But it's all good. Yep. Awesome. Well, before we before we sign off, I would love to hear. What do you love most about what you do? Oh, gosh, that's.
00;42;33;13
Crystal
So hard to. Okay, I suppose what popped into my mind was I got an email from a teenager yesterday who saw one of my presentations, and she wants to be one of my high school interns that's helping me actually write a teen version of the neuro whereabouts Guide. And she said that your your presentation was fascinating. It really got me thinking about what I'm going to do in college.
I really want to learn more. And if I can inspire that, even in the kids who are writing currently, right, you know that that keeps me going. That's a really cool purpose to have in my career.
00;43;13;08
Brenda
Amazing. I love hearing that. And I'm so glad that you talked about when we first started, about the kids who are like, Yeah, now I'm going to do a different plan. I'm going to go to the nonparty school that's really cool. Really, really cool. Thank you so much for being on Will put. If you're listening in the show notes, you can find links to Dr. Collier's work or book this is a really great book.
I love that. It's got the big button on the front. It's like it makes so much sense. It's very fun. So thanks for joining me.
00;43;44;09
Crystal
Thank you so much for having me. It's been an honor.
00;43;47;22
Brenda
Okay. That is it for today. If you would like to get the show notes for this episode, you can go to Brenda Zane Gqom forward slash podcast. All of the episodes are listed there and you can also find curated playlists there. So that's very helpful. You might also want to download a free e-book I wrote. It's called Hindsight Three Things I Wish I Knew when my son was Misusing drugs.
It give you some insight as to why your son or daughter might be doing what they are, and importantly, it gives you tips on how to cope and how to be more healthy through this rough time. You can grab that free from Brenda's income. Forget hindsight. Thank you so much for listening. I appreciate it. And I hope that these episodes are helping you stay strong and be very, very good to yourself.
And I will meet you right back here next week.