the incredible influence of parents when your child struggles with substance misuse or addiction, with Cathy Cioth
Host: Brenda Zane, brenda@brendazane.com
Instagram: @the.stream.community
Guest: Cathy Cioth, Director, The Stream Community
Free ebook: “HINDSIGHT: 3 Things I Wish I Knew When My Son Was Misusing Drugs, by Brenda Zane. Download here
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We provide connection, knowledge and healing for moms when their child is misusing drugs or alcohol.
This episode is supported by The Stream. You might be wondering who else is listening to this podcast and dealing with the same kinds of issues you are. You may also want to go beyond the podcast and dive deeper into the subjects with other moms who get it.
The Stream is the place where all of that happens. It’s a modern, online space where moms who have kids struggling with substance use and addiction issues focus on their own health, wellness, learning, and sanity. There’s no judgment and no drama (it's not on Facebook), and our community is based on positive thinking and learning C.R.A.F.T (Community Reinforcement and Family Training) skills. We have weekly events, a book club, yoga classes, workshops, expert guest speakers, and supportive conversations.
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About this episode:
A common feeling parents express when they have a child struggling with substance misuse or addiction is helplessness. In this candid conversation with my business partner Cathy, we talk about how parents can begin to take back some control and positively influence what's happening. It's empowering and uplifting, and we go on a tangent or two, as usual when we're talking to each other.
Episode resources:
Huberman Labs Podcast on the effects of cannabis and marijuana on the brain and body
The Marijuana episode on Hopestream with Dr. Nzinga Harrison
Stages of Change podcast episode on Hopestream
Two Sparrows in a Hurricane - Tanya Tucker
Research on parent’s influence: According to Marlowe et al. (1996), substance abusers reported that family members exerted substantially more influence over their decision to enter treatment than other sources of influence, including legal pressures exerted by court-mandated treatment. Research has also shown that family members and significant others can be important resources in treating drug abuse (Azrin, 1976; Garrett et al., 1997; McGillicuddy, Rychtarik, Duquette, & Morsheimer, 2001; O'Farrell & Fals-Stewart, 2003; Sisson & Azrin, 1986; Szapocznik, Kurtines, Foote, Perez-Vidal, & Hervis, 1983; Thomas & Santa, 1982).
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[00:01:26] Brenda: I have wanted to do an episode about parents' influence for so long, and Cathy and I were talking about it recently, as we do pretty often about how we wish more parents felt empowered and impactful during this experience when you have a teen or young adult who is misusing or addicted to substances and the supplies to even adult children.
So I guess I shouldn't say. teens and young adults. This applies to any age, and so we just hopped on a Zoom call and recorded it because we realized if we try to be organized about all of this and schedule stuff, it usually doesn't end up happening. And I'm not gonna say a whole lot more than this because we truly said it all in our conversation that you're about to hear.
So there's no point in repeating words. Just know whether your rollercoaster ride has recently begun, or maybe you have ridden it many times and it's finally coming to a halt, you have an incredible amount of influence over your child's substance use and in their transition to recovery and in sustaining that recovery. So here we.
Kathy and me. It's
[00:02:42] Cathy: how we roll.
[00:02:43] Brenda: Tangents are good. I don't know,
[00:02:45] Cathy: are good. That's how we roll,
[00:02:46] Brenda: it's like sometimes something just sparks in your mind and you're like, oh,
So Cathy and I are gonna try to be a little more regular. because I think it's just, we have really rich conversations and she and I get to enjoy them like all the time cuz we talk all the time. But, we just thought, we might wanna share these conversations.
Hopefully they're helpful.
Just to have some cheddar in your ear.
[00:03:09] Cathy: Yep.
[00:03:10] Brenda: tells you that there are things that you can do that you're not alone. just that alone I think would be, would've been really helpful. But I have to start out, can I just tell a really interesting life lesson that I learned this morning that is a hundred percent not related at all to what we're gonna talk about but I think it's help.
I think it's useful.
[00:03:33] Cathy: Okay.I, so I really love skincare. I think, you know, that I'm a little bit of a skincare junkie
You are a skincare junkie for sure, but you have amazing skin, so it's
[00:03:44] Brenda: thank you . Thank you. But, I have the benefit also of having my best friend be an aesthetician, so that helps. But anyway, so the point of this story is that I bought some moisturizer, just, my basic. and I'm trying to be cost conscious. And so I wanted, I really wanted to buy this amazing, cream that's this rose, I don't know, it's supposed to be magical. Well, the lady at the store gives me a little pot of it for as a sample. And I was like, oh, awesome. this is the amazing cream that I really wanna buy, but I really don't wanna spend the money on it.
So I bring it home and I'm always like, oh, I can't wait to use that cream. Oh, I can't wait to use that cream. But then I don't use it because I don't wanna use it because then it's gonna be gone. So the other day I'm like, I am gonna use the rose cream. So I open up the little pot that she gave me.
And it was bad, like it was, because this is like food grade skincare. . So you have to use it in some of their products, you have to put in the refrigerator.
[00:04:52] Cathy: I see. Oh.
[00:04:53] Brenda: So the rose cream was bad. It was like it was rancid. Like you could tell you
[00:05:00] Cathy: that's such a bummer.
[00:05:02] Brenda: So my point is, the lesson is use the good lotion while you have it and it's still good.
Don't put it off because I think we do this often, right? As people, as parents, as women, as men. I don't know what the men equivalent of skincare is. My husband uses a little bit of skincare. Does yours?
[00:05:28] Cathy: Oh yeah, he does. he actually sneaks my skincare. I've
[00:05:33] Brenda: Oh,
[00:05:33] Cathy: few times. And then I basically said, okay, this is really great stuff and you are welcome to use it, but you're just looking for the Jergens thing, then do that
[00:05:45] Brenda: Right.
[00:05:46] Cathy: No, I'm not, and I'm not saying dragons is that, I'm just telling you that. Yes, my husband does use skincare and he does like to pamper his skin.
[00:05:55] Brenda: Yeah.
but what a great life metaphor here, cuz I'm thinking, we often save the good stuff and then thinking we're gonna use it for a better time and then we never get to it. We don't enjoy life when we can.
[00:06:14] Brenda: Yeah.
[00:06:15] Cathy: What a lesson.Taught through the Rose Skincare Cream
Through refrigerated skincare.
[00:06:24] Brenda: Of course, I'm gonna have to translate this somehow to our kids, just cuz that's what I do. but I do think that we put off sometimes, like that vacation. And trust me, I know that vacations can be very tricky when you have a child who's actively using substances because all kinds of things get disrupted.
and it can be a little risky. So I'm not saying just go ahead and book that vacation, but maybe it's smaller things, right? Maybe it's just going out to pizza on a Friday night together and inviting them or whatever. Just not waiting for the things that we think we have to wait for until they're fixed or until they're sober or until they're in recovery or whatever it is.
sometimes just the act of inviting them to do something enjoyable is enough to make 'em pick up their head a little bit and be like, oh wow, that's kind of different.
[00:07:14] Cathy: right? You wanna spend time with me,
[00:07:17] Brenda: right? how great that is, you wanna spend time with me and, and then being okay if they say no, the act of inviting them and doing something fun together. Sometimes that's just great. Just to have that little time together, doing something fun.
[00:07:31] Cathy: Go to a batting cage, doing something active. and I love what you say. You don't have to wait until it's all perfect and every, all the ducks are in a row.Yeah. You'll be waiting a very long time.
you will be
[00:07:43] Brenda: So use the good lotion. Maybe that's what we'll title this episode.
[00:07:46] Cathy: The good lesson
[00:07:47] Brenda: Use the good lotion episode. I guess in a way it does tie into this topic of the influence that parents have because, , we don't think about the things that we can do that are actually really influential, when our kids are struggling.
But I think I just wanna start out by acknowledging that no parent is prepared for this. No parent, is has everything queued up and ready to go when you find out that they are really either struggling with mental health or they're using substances. And it's almost always a combination of both.
No one is prepared even, and you know this in stream community. I don't know about the woods yet. cause I don't know, I don't know the guys in there. But in the stream we have therapists, physicians, pediatricians, educational consultants, people. People who you would think, oh, they must have perfect kids because they are in this field.
And this is what they do for a living. And what I hear from them is it's what's the analogy? it's basically, it's like tickling yourself. Like you can't do it. You can't, when, even if you're a therapist, trying to therapize yourself and your family around, this is just, it doesn't work.
You need that outside, input.
[00:09:11] Cathy: right, And that is, it's so interesting you said that, cause I remember calling a reference when we were researching. treatment programs. And one of the references was a therapist, and she was so great and gracious, and she said, I just wanna say first and foremost, don't knock yourself out over this.
Don't feel bad. I'm a therapist, and all of this stuff was going on in my house and I didn't even see it. And I'm the person who says to my own patients, did you see this warning sign? this warning sign? And she said, and I missed them all. I love that. be kind to yourselves out there.
But, the most amazing thing that I think we're gonna share today is the incredible influence that you have. and just with simple skills, that you can do. and you really do have a lot of influence. I know you may feel completely helpless out there. I know I did helpless, hopeless. I felt like I didn't have really resources, like we say, I didn't know who to talk to and you talk to a therapist and I think in our family we tried to normalize a lot of it. this is typical behavior, your child's using pot. Oh, that's just typical. I did that kind of stuff.
Or maybe they're trying pills or whatever. They're just experimenting. This is normal. Just give them time. and so I spent a lot of time normalizing the behavior. I asked questions, but then I just always came back with, I guess this is normal and hopefully we'll get out of it.
[00:10:47] Brenda: And I think if we're really honest with ourselves, because I did a lot of the same, what we're really doing is saying, this is so uncomfortable, I don't wanna deal with it.
[00:10:57] Cathy: thousand percent. I so didn't wanna, my friends all know I was how many brooks to the head before I kinda, I just didn't wanna hear it. I didn't wanna hear it, and it was super uncomfortable if I felt ashamed. There's so much stigma around all of this. And that stigma prevented me also from getting the help that we needed.
I just, I didn't wanna do it.yeah, I, we've talked about it before, but it's like if you're, if your child was diagnosed with a brain tumor, you wouldn't feel embarrassed to, ask your neighbor, oh, hey, do you happen to know a brain surgeon? ? Right.so there
or your pediatrician Even your own pediatrician. I wonder how many parents are out there? Lips are sealed. I'm not even letting them know because I, I don't wanna embarrass my child or I don't wanna embarrass by myself. And you know how I don't wanna be judged for how I raised my child again thinking that this was all on me.
[00:11:57] Brenda: Yes. and especially, I know, we know we have a lot of members who live in small towns, and that pediatrician or the therapist, whoever it could be your next door neighbor or, there's just, it can get really
[00:12:12] Cathy: to school with your kids,
[00:12:13] Brenda: Yeah. And then that says something, so it, it does get really tricky.
But I think, the important message here is just know that if you're caught off guard, that is a thousand percent normal. Because like for me, if you had come to me with a really complex, , advertising, marketing, demand generation, media problem for your airline. I would've been like, I got you.
Like I, I know how to do this, right?
[00:12:43] Cathy: Yep.
[00:12:43] Brenda: But when my kid is coming home wasted and crashing the car and all these things, it was like I was in kindergarten. I had no idea what to do, . And you're thinking, wait a minute, I'm a highly intelligent person. I should know what to do. And I think what we just wanna say is, no, there is no way you would know what to do.
[00:13:06] Cathy: right,
[00:13:07] Brenda: course you don't know what to do.
[00:13:08] Brenda: And so this idea that you have so much influence, it is news to parents, I think, and I was actually talking with my husband about it this weekend and I said, you know, I actually now where I am, I'm kind of pissed off that nobody told me. that the police that were standing in my living room never told me, oh, there's actually something you can do.
There's an approach that you can apply to your family that's going to make a difference. The pediatrician never said anything. The school counselor never said anything. All of the therapists, all of the amazing people that we engaged to try and intervene in our life and in our family, nobody. Now, I'm not saying that they were withholding this information, I think they just didn't know.
But if somebody had said when he was in eighth or ninth grade, look, you are massively influential in this equation, and there are some things that you can start doing today that will help steer things in a different direction. No guarantee that what happened wouldn't have happened, obviously, but in the worst case scenario, I would've been healthier.
I wouldn't have. had all the physical and mental, some of the mental strain obviously is still gonna be there, but I would've been so much healthier. And so I was like, I was telling my husband, I was like, I'm pissed off about this, I went through all of this and there was something I could have done to make it radically different.
What? Why didn't I know this right?
[00:14:52] Cathy: But I think a lot of us didn't know this and I think a lot of these professionals didn't
[00:14:57] Brenda: I know.
[00:14:57] Cathy: really know. I think that, and that's why I think what we do on the stream in the woods is so important, is getting this word out and, it is getting traction and, which is so great. but I did feel angry.
I felt like the best therapy my kids finally got was in a program. And I think it had to get to that for them to get, you know, I wish it was more preventative
[00:15:22] Brenda: Right.
[00:15:22] Cathy: the time. and something that, really had to get to the point where they had to really go off the rails, before they. and we all got the help that we needed, essentially hitting their quote rock bottom, which I know you and I have talked about before. And that is just a very antiquated term and one we don't like to talk about cuz especially today's day and age, rock bottom, might be your child experimenting one weekend and then the next week and getting a pill with fentanyl in it.
And, there is no really such thing as rock bottom. And if you really want to go for that term, just know that rock bottom is different for every single person. And so it's not for us to judge, where rock bottom is. Let's try to prevent that. Let's try to get the help we can right now. So go easy on yourself. I get being upset,
[00:16:12] Brenda: Yeah. I know it just, I think it's like one of those things where you finally emerge from a situation and you look backwards and you go, oh, wait a minute. There were things that I could have done that would have drastically changed how this went. And I didn't know. And again, it's not that anybody was withholding anything from me, I just never found these tools of craft.
and we'll talk about that too. we might have to do a whole separate episode on craft. But, nobody told me that I, as the mother in the situation, Had a huge amount of influence cuz what I felt like was, I was a piece of garbage that had gotten like wadd up and discarded on the floor over in the corner and everybody else was taking control or going to try to take control from the police to the truancy court, to the therapist, to the school counselor to the city of Seattle.
all of these people were intervening
[00:17:13] Cathy: Yeah.
[00:17:13] Brenda: and I was in the corner crying, starving, like dying. And I wish I would've, I wish somebody would've told me you are the, i again, I can't say the most influential as a parent, but I do have some research that I'm gonna post in the show notes for this.
That, there actually is research about the influence of parents in this situation. that you are massively influential if you know how to. Use that influence. Cause I think what we think is, I'm gonna yell and I'm gonna scream and I'm gonna stomp my feet and I'm gonna take away your technology and I'm gonna kick you outta the house.
I'm gonna do all these things. And then what we know is that spoiler alert doesn't work.
[00:18:00] Cathy: darn
[00:18:01] Brenda: doesn't work.
[00:18:02] Cathy: That was in my rule book. I don't know
[00:18:05] Brenda: Yeah. But right. if somebody would've told me that earlier, oh honey , so just save yourself the time
[00:18:12] Cathy: yeah.and do,
your breath.
[00:18:14] Brenda: yeah. anyway, that's of how I was feeling about it.
[00:19:28] Brenda: But I think, like you said, on the rock bottom, cause I do wanna just circle back to that cuz I, there's a, there's a lot of controversy about words and is it rock bottom or not with our kid, if you have a teenager, a young adult who's maybe in college or they're 23, 24,the substances that they are using now are so highly addictive that we are talking weeks and months to become addicted.
Like chemically, their body is now physically addicted. It's not emotional thing. It's like their body requires that substance and that is happening so quickly where it used to take maybe, six months or so for somebody to become truly chemically addicted, that you just don't have time to do what you and I did, which is like wandering around in the woods in the dark with a little teeny tiny flashlight with the light is, flickering on and off cuz the battery's dead.
That's of how I was like wandering in this dark forest. My, my flashlight battery was just about to. and I was like, okay, I guess this is what you do when your kid is using substances. And we're saying is, no, no, no,no. That is not what you do.
[00:20:43] Cathy: Absolutely not. You can be empowered,
[00:20:46] Brenda: totally empowered with a big old like Home Depot flashlight that's, got this massive range and endless battery.
I mean,there's just so much that you can do because things are moving at a pace with these substances, with kids. Even. Even if when, we use the air quotes just marijuana. It is not just marijuana. the potency of that is causing really serious damage really quickly.
[00:21:17] Cathy: Yeah. Can we talk about that even for a couple seconds? I think that a lot of times as parents we say it's just marijuana. And you're right, it is just marijuana. This just marijuana is not the marijuana from even 10 years ago. I know we often say, I did that when I was in college and look at me, I'm fine now.
But marijuana today and there are studies is highly addictive. It is just different. It's It's been made with massive amounts of t h c, which are affecting our kids' brains more than anything. And they actually have, diagnoses of, acute addiction with marijuana. this is nothing to, back down about and to be look at this very seriously if your kid is even using, as they say, even using marijuana, it's a big deal. .
[00:22:11] Brenda: Yes it is. And I'm, I'll post a link to, Huberman Labs has a phenomenal podcast all about, marijuana and just the physiological, like what is going on in the body. And, it's pretty eye-opening for sure. Now if you are in a harm reduction situation and your son or daughter's been using fentanyl and now they have transitioned to using marijuana different, okay, that is a step in the right direction, but that isn't necessarily the end goal that you would want, just especially on a brain that's less than 25 ish.
Oof. it's super scary what it's doing. And what we see, in our communities is these kids are really experiencing severe psychosis. Very early on. It's not like they've been using for three years and now they're having psychosis. It's, I've been using for a few months, heavy use, obviously daily use, but that psychosis is happening and, and, kids are being diagnosed with schizophrenia and that's pretty darn scary.
[00:23:17] Cathy: I love what you said about the harm rejection model for sure. If your kid was using fentanyl, this is definitely battle alternative. But, I highly suggest going into, if you have, if marijuana is legal in your area, go into a really great dispensary.
There are some that aren't that great and then, it's just like there's really great department stores and then there's others that aren't so great. Try to find that really great dispensary, look up reviews and go in and edge. Educate yourself and be honest. Tell them, Hey, I've got a kid that's using, can you tell me about the different strains?
Are there ways to taper them off? so you can, this is one of the things that can empower you, to have a conversation with your kid. This is just one example, that you're not coming into your kids' bedroom and saying you shouldn't be using that. but maybe going into your kids' room and saying, Hey, I did a little field trip today because I feel like I don't know enough about marijuana.
So I actually went to a dispensary to find out some things. Is it okay if I talk to you about them and open up that conversation? And, you might be really surprised at your kid's like, okay, mom, I roll, insert, what did you learn? And then you're having this conversation about pot in a really, Non-combat way,
and you're opening that door to communication and right there is an influence, right?
Maybe your kid did not know that there are strains of marijuana that are a little less strong and you are the one delivering this information to them. How awesome is that you close that door to their room after that conversation and maybe they're thinking, maybe I need something a little lighter than this.
This stuff is really intense and I don't wanna be there. Influence right there.
[00:25:07] Brenda: Yes. Yeah. An educated parent is an influential parent for sure, because. The last thing we wanna do is to start one of those conversations and either have the wrong information or not have any information. but yeah, it's really the, the old science, I don't even know if it was science, but the old, mindset was you really don't have any influence.
You're helpless to whatever your kiddo's doing. They have to hit rock bottom. They have to come to this on their own. And to some degree they do have to come to it on their own. Cuz my, my son went through multiple rounds of treatment because he wasn't ready and we kept him alive during the time that he was in that pre-contemplative state.
And even in the contemplative state, we're talking about the stages of change. there's another episode on that. I'll put a link in the show notes too. But while they're in that pre-contemplative state, they are not considering changing. That's where you can bring that rock bottom up. So you are lifting the bottom of the rock bottom.
So that rock bottom might be a really severe car crash that they go, oh wow, I don't wanna do that again instead of death.
So you have control and influence over to some degree what that rock bottom might look like. And I think another way to talk about rock bottom is just that point of deciding I don't wanna do this anymore.
rock bottom I think has a lot of stigma itself attached to it and a lot of controversy. So if we really just think about, and you hear this, and I, so many of my guests who are in recovery talk about it, is they just get to a point where they say, I don't wanna live like this anymore.
[00:26:53] Brenda: And that is where if you are following an approach that. Really keeps you safe and healthy with boundaries allows those natural consequences to take place. Those natural consequences are usually a really good way to pull that rock bottom up. So if you are consistently rescuing and taking care of things and easing the impact of what's going on, you're just making the bottom deeper.
It's okay, they can just, they can keep falling cuz you just removed a barrier. Whereas if you lift the bottom up by saying, gosh, that really sucks that you're in jail. Wow, I, I can't imagine I've never been there. Instead of, oh, I'll, I'll come bail you. I don't want you to stay in jail overnight.
I'll come bail you out.
[00:27:48] Cathy: right.
[00:27:49] Brenda: I mean, next level parenting skills to be able to do that. and you're not gonna get there right away or without the support of a community, but you can use your influence in highly strategic ways. That's one of the things I really wish that I had known, is I could be strategic about what I was doing and how I was talking and the things that I was, the actions that I were, that I was taking, instead of just, I felt like a, I think there's a country song called The Sparrow in a hurricane or something like that, that's exactly what I felt like.
[00:28:25] Cathy: great.
[00:28:26] Brenda: I felt like that. I felt like I was at the whim of whatever he was gonna do that day, whatever was gonna happen, and I was just like blowing in the wind, reacting, reacting, reacting instead of being ahead of it and being strategic about what I was doing. That was just a game changer when I figured that out.
which I didn't figure out until very late in the game. But man, , I
it's a game changer. You're right. And I love what you just said there because, I was thinking back on it and, when we learned these methods of, holding firm to a boundary, and I think people think of boundaries as really hard. You know, they're so, so, so tough. you could start small little boundaries. I like to coach parents. you don't have to go all out right away. Start with the little one so you can get a little comfortable. but your kids do expect you to rescue them. if you've been a rescuer all along, they're expecting that.
[00:29:22] Cathy: So when you learn that, gee, I can have some influence and not rescue this one time, maybe you've set a boundary of, Hey, if you're not home by this time, you know the doors are locked. or whatever that is. I know with us that our child spent enough time sleeping on their friend's sofas, because by the way, they weren't homeless, which was my big fear.
I always thought, oh my gosh, they're gonna be homeless. Never homeless, basically spending the night on sofas and not even in their car. They were sleeping on sofas, on floors of their friends in a nice, warm home. And there was enough of that going on that when things got pretty bad. And, treatment came a lot easier because he had already spent this time couch surfing and that was not very fun.
[00:30:15] Brenda: right?
I know that we had influence there,
[00:30:18] Brenda: Yeah.
[00:30:19] Cathy: versus rescuing all the time. It's so easy to do. it's our natural, it's just in the d n A of a parent to try to keep your child safe. And thank goodness, because when they're little, we need to do that. It's when they get older that I think nobody really teaches us or trains us. Even if your child's not using substances, it's really hard to f.
[00:30:41] Brenda: to find that balance of letting go and letting them experiment with things and fail, and being okay with letting them fail. yeah, it, the influence that you have is, I think, one thing that you can really grab onto and take control of because you don't have control of a lot of things. And we spend a lot of time talking about don't focus on what you can't control because that's just spinning your wheels.
But, the, this approach, the invitation to change craft, these are things that you are 100% in control of. And I just found that to be really nice to say, oh my gosh, there's something that I can control again. Cause I felt like that sparrow in the hurricane. So knowing that there were these, things that I could learn.
and this is, I got this from reading, beyond Addiction. at the, toward the end it was when things were pretty bad with us that, I could read something and it was simple enough that I could actually try it the same day. It wasn't like, oh, I have to go through this PhD course and like bec, youcuz you don't have time for that and you don't have the mental bandwidth or anything for that.
[00:31:52] Cathy: So it was really nice for me to be able to read oh, like a great example is red light, green light. Yeah,
[00:31:57] Brenda: there are times when there is no point in approaching my son about what's going on because my, and it just sounds so silly now. But, my thing would be he would come home, Under the influence of whatever.
And that was in, in my mind, that was the perfect time to get really in his face and tell him how, disappointed I was in him and how he was ruining my life and how dangerous it was. And didn't he know that he could kill somebody? really, Brenda, that's when you think a good time to have a conversation is one o'clock in the morning in the, in the front, of the house with him completely wasted.
Please tell me how that's a good idea.
[00:32:41] Cathy: sense to me.but again, at the time, you don't know and you wouldn't know because it's just, it, you react, you're so emotional, you're so scared, you're so angry, and so even just the simple concept of learning where the red lights are and where the green lights are. game changer.
[00:33:01] Brenda: And that is something that you can learn and pick up in an hour and then take it and use it that day or that night at one o'clock in the morning or two o'clock in the morning. . so I just, I think it's important to let people know that you are not helpless For sure. Because that is a very common feeling of this is so big, this is so foreign, this is so scary.
This is so uncomfortable. there's nothing I can do. And the great news is there is something that you can do. It's not, let me see. I was gonna say, it's not that hard. That would be a lie. It
[00:33:40] Cathy: It is a little
[00:33:41] Brenda: simple, but it is hard because it's not natural and you don't know it. you just have to learn it.
and this is the time where you go, okay, , I'm gonna learn a whole new set of skills that, by the way, bonus of this is these skills will help you at work with people that you work with, with your spouse, with your other
[00:34:02] Cathy: so many relationships.
[00:34:04] Brenda: my gosh. Just relationships in general.
[00:34:07] Cathy: And they get easier. They get easier. So I will say that, it's that first time you are holding up the boundary. That first time, oh my goodness, that feels like the hardest thing and. . So on the stream, a few of us moms have laughed about it. oh my gosh, I gotta say this.
I can't believe I gotta do this. and then it happens and it's received so well by your kids, or maybe not, maybe they're angry, you're, you know that to expect that and it works, and then the next time you do it, it just gets easier and easier. And so it, it really is something that the more you practice, it gets easier to do. and there are still a lot of emotions around there. There's a lot of big emotions around there. But I will say that, it almost makes life easier because the kids now really understand what to expect and it's helping them too.
[00:35:04] Brenda: Absolutely.
[00:35:05] Cathy: that's a great thing.
[00:35:07] Brenda: Yeah. Cool. there you go. That's what we wanted
[00:35:10] Cathy: There you go. , you've got influence.
[00:35:13] Brenda: got so much influence. Yes. And I think that's really exciting. We'll do a separate, we'll do a separate episode on exactly a little bit more about Crafton. Exactly why we'd love it. because I think it's important to give it, it its own time, but I think the core message of.
Conversation is just, if you're feeling like that sparrow in the hurricane, I'll have to look that up. If it is a real song, if it is a real country song,
[00:35:39] Cathy: Oh my gosh.
[00:35:41] Brenda: I'll look it up and put a link.
it could be the background music for this episode. How great would that be?
[00:35:46] Brenda: I don't know why I have that in my brain that it's a song. But anyway, if you're feeling like the sparrow in a hurricane, just know that you are not, that you can actually have that control and some influence.
it's, it is a game changer. and kids really do respond. I know it can be easy to think oh my gosh, like my, you don't know my kid. My kid would never respond to any of. Things. And I get it because I said the same thing. I was like, oh, about this. And then you just try it cuz what's, what do you have to lose?
[00:36:19] Brenda: What you're doing might not be working, probably isn't
[00:36:22] Cathy: Yes.
[00:36:23] Brenda: So what do you have to lose of trying a new technique? That might feel a little weird at first, but I, we do this enough, we talk with hundreds of parents and we, it's my very favorite thing when somebody gets on a chat or I'm, if I'm on a partnership call and somebody says, oh my gosh, I tried that thing and it worked. they're shocked, right? Because they're totally shocked. but that's the best. So yes, highly influential and we'll look up the song and see if we can get it as the
[00:36:53] Cathy: it up. .
[00:36:55] Brenda: All right, thanks for another great
[00:36:57] Cathy: Fun chatting. I'll talk to you later.
[00:36:59] Brenda: Okay.
Okay, that is it for today. If you would like to get the show notes for this episode, you can go to brenda zane.com/podcast. All of the episodes are listed there, and you can also find curated playlists there, so that's very helpful. You might also wanna download a free ebook I wrote. It's called H. Three things I wish I knew when my son was misusing drugs.
It'll give you some insight as to why your son or daughter might be doing what they are. And importantly, it gives you tips on how to cope and how to be more healthy through this rough time. You can grab that free from brenda zane.com/h. Thank you so much for listening. I appreciate it and I hope that these episodes are helping you stay strong and be very, very good to yourself, and I will meet you right back here next week.