Parenting Through a Child's Substance Use With Clarity, Compassion And Your Own Therapist, with Patrick Balsley
Host: Brenda Zane, brenda@hopestreamcommunity.org
Instagram: @hopestreamcommunity
Guest: Patrick Balsley, Sana Counseling & Sana House
Free ebook: “Worried Sick, A Compassionate Guide For Parents When Your Teen Misuses Drugs or Alcohol, by Brenda Zane. Download here
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Podcast support from:
HOPESTREAM COMMUNITY
The private, online community for parents with kids misusing substances and struggling with mental health. Not connected to Facebook or any social media, it’s your place to learn skills, become more strategic in helping your child, and get healthier for yourself and your family.
About this episode:
Patrick Balsley's substance use began with alcohol in middle school and ended 11 years later with a heroin- and cocaine-induced psychosis. But instead of talking to Patrick about who he used to be, today I'm talking to him about the incredible things he's been doing with his life since then, and what he's learned while helping so many other families in their pursuit of recovery.
Episode resources:
Sana Recovery - young men’s sober living in Charlotte, NC
About Patrick Balsley
Emerald School of Excellence - Charlotte, NC recovery high school
Archway Academy, Houston, TX recovery high school
Generation Found documentary
CRAFT-Certified Therapist List (from Dr. Bob Meyers)
Find CRAFT-practitioners at Helping Families Help
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Patrick: 0:01
If you have a kid that's struggling with addiction and mental health issues, the kind of acute response to that situation is very much like PTSD. Most parents, if they've been at it for a while, they do meet criteria for PTSD. And if you don't do that, that work, and your loved one comes back into your family system, And you're super reactive to every single move they make because you, you're acting out a trauma response. It's going to have a negative impact on their own healing process. And I see that the most.
Brenda: 0:45
You're listening to HopeStream. If you're parenting a young person who misuses substances, is in a treatment program or finding their way to recovery, you're in the right place. This is your private space to learn from experts and gain encouragement and support from me, Brenda Zane. Your host and follow mom to a child who struggled. This podcast is just one of the resources we offer for parents. So after the episode, head over to our website at hopestreamcommunity. org. I'm so glad you're here. Take a deep breath, exhale, and know that you have found your people. And now let's get into today's show. Well, this doesn't happen often or ever, but I got to spend a full day with my guest on today's episode. It's really important to me that I bring you reputable and trustworthy information. From people who are working really hard in the field of mental health and substance use. But I usually vet them over the phone or on a video call. So I'm not totally sure how this day that I spent with Patrick Balsley came to be, but I was headed to Charlotte, North Carolina for a meetup of our local HopeStream community members. And when I let Patrick know that I would be in town, he said, well, come hang out with me. So I did. And let me just say that I am so glad I took him up on his offer. You know how you see movies or TV shows where a civilian does a ride along with a police officer or a first responder. That is kind of how I think about the day I spent with Patrick. He's not a police officer. But I would absolutely put him in the category of first responder. I hopped in his SUV at about 9 a. m. and we rode along on his normal day. We visited a new adolescent mental health program that was opening. We went to the recovery high school that Patrick sits on the board of. Emerald School of Excellence. We went to Sana Recovery, which is the recovery residence for men that Patrick founded. We had an awesome plant based lunch and made a few other stops along the way. The entire day as he drives, this guy is fielding calls from parents, from his staff. From community members, he's like organizing a Suboxone pickup from another city for one of the men in his house. It's incredible. And I got a front row seat to all of it. It was so inspiring to see the dedication that Patrick puts into what he does. And I know it is because he's been through his own version of hell with substance use and mental health challenges. So he knows the gig and he knows how important it is for families to get connected to help. It would take about three hours to run you through Patrick's personal story. It's one that Netflix should definitely pick up. I heard the nitty gritty of all of it during our day together, but let me just give you a quick primer before jumping into our conversation. Patrick's story really is one of grace. He was born in Charlotte, North Carolina in 1982 and attended Charlotte country day school from kindergarten through 12th grade. When Patrick was in middle school, he started experimenting with alcohol. And by the time he started ninth grade, he had developed a dependence to prescription painkillers. Patrick's substance use progressed through high school, but unfortunately it was overlooked because he was extremely social. He was involved in lots of activities. He had huge athletic achievements and there was just a general lack of insight into the process of addiction. He was able to graduate high school in 2000 and went on to North Carolina State University, Ended up taking precedence over his academics and he filled out. So he returned home and bounced around trying to hold down a job for the next 11 years. Did you hear that? My friend, 11 years. This was not a short story for the next 11 years. Drugs and alcohol ruled Patrick's life. And by 2011, after numerous stints in treatment and subsequent relapses, he found himself in a 90 day dual diagnosis residential treatment program in Delray Beach, Florida. He weighed 125 pounds, was addicted to heroin, cocaine, and alcohol, and was in a drug induced psychosis. Through this treatment, Patrick found lasting sobriety and a new life of recovery. Knowing the depth of despair and destruction that drugs and alcohol can wreak on an individual, Patrick felt a deep responsibility to share what he had found. He started working in addiction treatment in 2012 and returned to school to study counseling. Patrick currently serves on the behavioral health committee at Atrium Health Foundation and on the advisory board of Four Students, a nonprofit organization that helps schools facilitate essential conversations around mental health. He's on the board of directors of both Emerald School of Excellence, the Carolinas First Recovery High School and Pivot Point WNC, a nonprofit in Asheville, North Carolina that offers therapeutic wilderness experiences for at risk youth. In 2022, Patrick saw a need in the Charlotte community for high end recovery residence for young men. Then in 2023, Santa House was born, which is a recovery residence and a community for young men, 18 and up that provides mentoring and 24 seven individualized recovery support with the purpose of bringing recovery to life through community. I feel like all of this doesn't even really do justice to what a phenomenal person Patrick is. So I will stop talking now and let you listen in. Here's me and Patrick Balsley. Enjoy. Patrick, welcome to take two of Patrick joins HopeStream. A little snafu the last time. So we are back. We're going to make it work. How's it going?
Patrick: 7:34
Yeah, I think we got it. We got a clear Wi Fi signal this time.
Brenda: 7:37
I think we do. This is going to be a great conversation. We had a little pre call. We talked about so much and I just know your work with families is so relevant to you. Our listeners, because they are all sitting there or walking or on a hike or whatever they're doing going, what is going on with my kid? How can I make this better? Help me understand how we got here what I can do all of that So I feel like you're somebody who has some of those answers.
Patrick: 8:12
I don't know We'll see it really just depends on on the situation You know, one of the things that brought me into this field, obviously my own recovery journey But what makes me so passionate about working with families? Probably stems from my family's reaction to, to my active addiction. Thank God for people like you and the resources that we have today. They weren't around back in the nineties when I was going through my stuff. Alcoholism, both sides of the family. They didn't know what to do with, with me. Started drinking in middle school, you know, it was flew under the radar, you know, it was on the weekends, nothing bad happened. And as it slowly progressed through high school, like most. You know, adolescent using does for the most part, you know, they kind of took the stance of we all experimented, we ended up okay, we're functional now, he'll probably just grow out of it,
Music: 9:17
you
Patrick: 9:19
know, and, and I didn't grow out of it, you know, talking to my parents in hindsight after this, you know, they didn't know what to do, who to turn to. I didn't even know how to start the conversation. So it was, and I, and I feel like that's where a lot of parents struggle today and, and adolescent use alcohol, cannabis, you know, there's this normalization of it within our culture that really allows for parents to, to kind of stand in that space of, Oh, it's not that bad. We did it too. And this is just a phase. My question would be. It's like, where is that, where is that line? When has it gone too far? How do you, you know, determine what that looks like? And where, where's the line for you as a parent? And a lot of times, like, you know, for my, you know, my parents got divorced, which is another catalyst of my addiction. One of the aces, and My parents substance use increased as a result of the stress that was brought upon by, by my use as an adolescent and a young adult. So, you know, parents that have already existing substance use in their life, and it, and it may not be problematic but if it is in any way, shape, or form, self medication, you know, when the stresses of dealing with a child with mental health issues, or, or substance use struggles comes in. If your go to is to, is to reach for, you know, a drink or have an extra one, you know, that's going to compound along with, with your kids.
Brenda: 11:02
Absolutely. And I think that's more common than we often talk about.
Patrick: 11:09
Sure. And I'm not, I'm not a teetotaler by any means. But it was something that my, my parents had a predisposition to, and they, they fell right into the trap with the stress around my use and the, and the, you know, the unknown and the helplessness and not really knowing what to do.
Music: 11:29
Right.
Patrick: 11:30
It was really easy for them to be able to use that as a, you know, coping mechanism with that stress.
Brenda: 11:36
Yeah. And then there's the added layer of guilt because. It's all stacking on top of each other and you're like, Oh, did I cause this? Or is, you know, like, is there something horribly wrong with my child? And then. Yeah. It's easy to just sort of tap out of that at some point, especially with the stress of a divorce or anything else like that. And a lot of our families have right now, you know, they're dealing with their parents who are aging. And so they've got on, on this hand, the child who is misusing substances on this hand, they're trying to. You know, deal with mom and dad who may have dementia or Alzheimer's or whatever, and they don't want to move out of their house because, you know, and it's just like, are you kidding me? I am in the middle of this madness.
Patrick: 12:30
Yeah. You're getting it, getting it from both sides and I'm, I'm really glad that you brought that up. I mean, we don't, you know, we don't talk about that.
Brenda: 12:39
It's a lot. It is a lot. It's a lot. It's a lot. you're at the age, well, there's a few other compounding factors that we could talk about. One menopause for moms who are in this phase are also most of the time going through menopause. So that's a whole thing. And you're also at a point in your career where you have the potential. To kind of really step it up, right? You have seniority, you've been done your job for a long time. You may be at a fairly senior level in your career. And this is the time where if you could put in the time and put in the travel and put in the mind space, you could really like accelerate at the end. Toward that last maybe 10 years of your career, but no, because you don't know where your kid is or you're spending the night in the hospital trying to figure out treatment. And it's all, it's just so much.
Patrick: 13:34
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and that's why it's so important. You know, and the sooner the better for family members and parents specifically to start getting their own support systems built. I mean, I'm a huge opponent of therapy, like, across the board. I mean, it just, it really sucks that you have to have a diagnosable substance use issue to get coverage, or mental health issue to get coverage for therapy in our country, because if we could set it up to where it was more preventative. We would save a ton of money and prevent a lot of suffering from curry. But I mean, I, you know, anytime a parent comes to me or I get a phone call about an adolescent or young adult that's misusing substances, one of the, one of the first things that I encourage parents to do is to go in and seek their own therapeutic support. We only have a certain amount of capacity. to, to handle stress, and once we hit that certain level, you know, we're going to lose clarity, we're going to lose the inability to make wise decisions around very crucial, you know, things that, that may be coming up in crisis, and if we're not prepared to make those decisions in the moment, it could have dire consequences if, if we don't make the right one. We're in some deep trouble. Yes. You know, I, I, I use this example for most parents. I'm like, if all you're doing with your therapist is going in there and bitching for an hour about it doesn't really matter what, you're, you're expelling some of that energy. You know, and if you can get enough out, it's not going to come out of the side of your neck at your kids or your spouse, you know, so if you can just find a place to, to release the pressure valve, you know, just a little bit to give you a little bit more capacity and then over time, once you see the value in that. And hopefully you develop a relationship and some rapport and some trust in a good therapist. You know, then you can really start doing the deeper work that could really be transformative on all different dimensions of your life.
Brenda: 15:53
What do you say to the parent who's listening, who's like, What is he talking about? The deeper work? Like, Oh, I'm fine. I've got a great job. I've got great family, except for this one Yahoo over here. Who's kind of, you know, causing problems, but we'll get that fixed. But otherwise I'm fine, dude. Like, what are you talking about? I do the work.
Patrick: 16:17
I just say, you know, do you believe that your life could be better than it is? You know, and everyone's going to say, yeah, of course. You know? Most people that are in a situation like this, people that I've worked with in the past and myself included, it took me a really long time to ask for any kind of help from anybody with anything. And the way that our society is set up, it's, it's kind of like, you know, you're going to grind, you're going to figure it out and you're going to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and you're going to be a man or, you know, you're going to follow your role. And a lot of us have grown up. In generations where that's kind of been the mindset. And we've just, we've never had an opportunity to really sit down and examine where all of that came from. Is it functional or not? Are you actually doing what you want to be doing with your life? It's go, go, go, go, go, go, go. From the time, you know, the time we're born, we're in school, we're in soccer, we're in all these different activities. You know, we get through, you know, we, the next thing you know, we're in college and somebody's telling us what we're going to do for work and, you know, next, you know, you're 50 years old and you've lived this life where, you know, Barely any intention. And yeah, you have your basic needs, Matt. And yeah, you may have a bunch of money in the bank, but. If you really examine how you got there and are you really, truly satisfied with, with where you're at. When I think about the work, it's not, it's not about necessarily changing for me. It's just about honestly examining our motivations and intentions.
Brenda: 18:10
I think that's great to hear because there's still, I think a perception that if you're going to therapy, something is broken and you are trying to fix it and it probably has to do with your. Parents and your childhood. And a lot of people just don't want to go there. Right. And a lot of people do feel like, well, yeah, I guess I could be happier, but I don't know, this is just how life is. Right. So I like the approach of a, it's not that anything's broken and needs to be fixed. And it's not that you need to change yourself in any way, but to examine why you are, how you are, how did you get here? Are you going to be happy if this is your trajectory for the next 50 years is super important. And, and I think what I have found in going to all the therapy that I've gone to is it feels like a gift, like that hour with my therapist feels like such a gift to myself because I'm, I'm not trying to solve her problems. I'm not trying to, you know, it's just for me and it's. It's so amazing. And if you haven't experienced it, I think that's just one of the things that you might not necessarily expect.
Patrick: 19:28
Yeah. I mean, you described that perfectly. I mean, my, my relationship with my therapist is sacred and it's for me to be able to go in to a place and, and feel no judgment. And obviously that, that takes time. But most of us, you know, myself included, I never had a relationship my whole life where I felt like I could be open and honest about what I was thinking and feeling to the point where I didn't feel judged or felt like I had to meet somebody else's need. And I think if, if people took an honest look at themselves and their relationships, they would agree that they're probably in the same boat. And. Unless you've had the type of experience with a, with a really good therapist, like you're describing or you can go in there and they just hold space for you to be you, and to figure your stuff out, and they don't tell you what to do, and they don't try to fix you, or judge you, or they just let you be you. A lot of us have never experienced that in any capacity. In relationship to another human being our, our whole lives. So it is, it's, it's like you said, it's, it's, it's a breath of fresh air. And it's, it's, it's new.
Brenda: 20:47
It is. Yeah, it's, and I, I just mentioned that because at least I know before I started seeing a therapist, when my son was struggling, I'd always had this perception that if I was going then that meant I needed to get fixed and that there would be a lot of sort of like this. Judgment of kind of looking down like, Oh, well, girlfriend, you got all this wrong. Like you need to be doing this and you need to be doing that. And that was, I don't know where that came from, but that's just what I thought therapy was going to be. So it was incredibly refreshing to find that it wasn't that. And I just mentioned it because if people are listening and going,
Music: 21:26
eh,
Brenda: 21:27
I don't know about this therapy thing, you know, like it's going to be fine. I'm my kids in treatment. They're going to, Get straightened out and fixed up and then they'll come back and we'll just carry on. And what I learned was that the road was going to continue to be extremely bumpy if I didn't do some stuff differently. Not that I had been doing things wrong. I did things the way I knew how to do them, but. Do you see this in the folks that you work with that families kind of have to move down the path together to, to end up with a better result?
Patrick: 22:02
Yeah, absolutely. And not to mention too, like the kind of acute response to that situation is, is very much like PTSD. You know, I mean, if you have a, if you have a kid that's struggling with addiction, mental health issues, most parents, if they've been at it for a while, they do meet criteria for PTSD. Great. Thanks. And if you don't do that, that work and, and your loved one comes back in to your family system and you're super reactive to every single move they make because you, you're acting out a trauma response, it's gonna have a negative impact on their own healing process.
Music: 22:41
Oh, for sure. And I
Patrick: 22:42
see that the most, you know, and that's, I think that's probably the biggest fallout for most people. Most families that don't choose to get their own therapeutic support is that they think, you know, they get this respite while the kid's in treatment. They're getting help. And they, they kind of think they can breathe again, but the second the kid's back in their family system or somewhere in the proximity to where they're having to make some decisions around them, you know, they're, they're playing off that, that trauma and and it's showing up in areas that you wouldn't think it would show up and you may not even recognize it.
Brenda: 23:24
What would be an example of that?
Patrick: 23:27
My dad. Yeah. Yeah. For example, I mean, he didn't even, like, he said that he would hide his wallet up until I had, like, you know, three years sober, you know, and he knew it was ridiculous, but he would still do it, you know, because there was this part of him that was like, you know, I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop, and if it does, like,
Brenda: 23:47
Yep. That's a good example. Hi, I'm taking a quick break to let you know some exciting news. There are now two private online communities for supporting you through this experience with your child or children, the stream community for those who identify as moms and the woods for guys who identify as dads. Of course, this includes step parents and anyone who is caring for a young person who struggles with substance use and mental health. The stream and the woods exists completely outside of all social media, so you never have to worry about confidentiality and they're also ad free. So when you're there, you'll be able to focus on learning the latest evidence based approaches to helping people change their relationship with drugs and alcohol in both communities. We have a positive focus without triggering content or conversations, and we help you learn to be an active participant in helping your child move towards healthier choices. You'll also experience the relief of just being able to be real, connect with other parents who know fully what you're going through and have battle tested mentors alongside. You can check out both the stream and the woods for free before committing. So there's no risk. Go to hope stream community. org to get all the details and become a member. Okay. Let's get back to the show. Well, what I hear a lot and what I went through is that process of rebuilding trust. And we don't have, we'll have to maybe do a whole separate episode on that because that's, that's a huge one is how do I rebuild trust? Now I've been lied to for five years. And finagled, and gas lit, and all these things. Now this person is back, and they're fine, they're better, they're, you know. And, am I supposed to just, like, be okay with that? It's so hard.
Patrick: 25:56
Yeah. And that's another reason to, like, be able to process that stuff in therapy. Like, you know, so if you're a parent, and you're going to therapy every week, And you're back in relationship with your loved one, and you show up that way, in a way that, you know, presents itself as untrustworthy, and your kid's like, well, that's not me anymore, I'm crushing it in my recovery, why are you being like this, like instead of Being reactive like you can go into therapy and you can talk to your therapist about that and and and hopefully they'll Help you be able to be more mindful in those situations and choose another, you know Kind of mode of being relationship with your loved one and that stuff comes up again,
Brenda: 26:45
you know Give it a try is what I would say is Just because you go once doesn't mean you have to go for the rest of your life. You can just try. And I think it takes, I don't know what your experience is, but it took me a few tries to find the right person, you know, and I think it's just like anything else. You have to have that right relationship. And so if you go once and it's not a great fit, doesn't mean it's not the right person. You might need to work with them a little bit, but the right fit is out there. So,
Patrick: 27:14
yeah. And, and it might be, you know, I, I, I love the idea of obviously. You get lucky enough and your first therapist is this incredible human being that has the capacity to hold this kind of space that you need. You know, that's great, but it took me, you know, three therapists, but all three have given me what I've needed at the time. And now I've found one that I think I can stick with for a while, but, but it's, I think it's really important too, to vet the therapist too, just don't go on like better help, just pick one. Cause he's like the way they look. You know, find them through resources like you or, you know, maybe some other trusted resources in the community. Obviously, you want to make sure that they have the type of experience and credentials and they work with specific populations. Because I see a lot of times, especially if you're kind of resistant or on the fence about getting some support, you know, And you go to a person that's not the right fit, that's just, you know, it's like, it's confirmation. No, this doesn't work for me, you know,
Brenda: 28:22
exactly. See, I knew it wasn't going to work. It's going to be bad. Yes. Yeah. And especially like you said, having the right experience and focus, because I hear a lot from people that will say, well, I tried. And when I said that my 17 year old was, you know, smoking THC all day, they just sort of like. Deer and headlights. And so you definitely want to make sure that whoever you're working with has experience with adolescent substance use or young adult, just otherwise it's going to be a little bit of a tricky thing.
Patrick: 28:54
And they're, and they're hard to find.
Brenda: 28:56
Yeah. I will put in the show notes. I have a list of craft. Certified therapists and it is global. So even if you're not, we have a lot of listeners not in the U S so I'll put that in the show notes for this episode because I didn't know that existed. And I finally tracked it down through Bob Meyer's website. And so at least that's a place you could start.
Patrick: 29:18
Oh, yeah, for sure.
Brenda: 29:20
Well, when we talked earlier, we kind of got into a conversation about young people today. I think I'd asked you kind of what you're, what you see and what's going on. And you talked a bit about young people who are really kind of just avoiding life in general, just sort of checking out, they're not participating. And we obviously see this a lot in our community. So you layer on substance use and isolation and the mental health stuff that's going on. So maybe we could tap into that a little bit because I think it's, I think it will resonate quite a bit with many of our listeners.
Patrick: 29:56
Yeah. I mean, I, I work with a lot of adolescents. My practice isn't adolescent specific, but I do I do work with a lot of young, younger kiddos between, you know, 14 and 17. It's kind of odd. I see both ends of the spectrum. I see kids who get intervened on early, and this is why I'm a huge proponent of early intervention. I see kids that almost immediately, through treatment or good therapeutic support, it just clicks, and they're like, oh my god, thank you for intervening. You know, I was going to ruin my life. I didn't see this coming and they end up in a good program or they have a good therapist or mentor or coach that they really connect with that can Show them Show them the landscape of their potential and they're like i'm not giving that up. So it like these are kind of isolated incidents What i'm about to talk about but there are there are a lot Kids and I've seen them, you know recently and more more recently than I have and earlier in my career It's almost like this this like apathetic sense that of hopelessness, it's like even if I do stop using and if a bunch of really You know, if all the pieces kind of fell into place, life still really wouldn't be worth living in the sense of the worldview that I have, you know, and it's like, and then I think the way I described it to you is like, they have so much access to information and I think COVID had a lot to do with this and, and kind of where we're at as a society they see all this stuff in the news, all the political stuff and all the divisiveness. And they're like, I don't want to have anything to do with that. You know, they're intuitive enough and sensitive enough to know that whatever game most of us are playing, they don't want to play it, you know, they're calling, they're calling bullshit on it. And they're like, you know, the system's rigged. And then, and then with all the, you know, social media stuff, it's, it's almost like this perfect trap. They're terrified of growing up and living their life for. Many different reasons, but then piled on top of that, they're just getting YouTube video after YouTube video of conspiracy theories and political, you know, war stuff. I mean, it's, it's just like, and it's, it's just confirming, you know, or validating this already existing worldview of I'm not good enough. And I'm, you know, the task is, is too tall. And then you pile substances on top of that. And it's like the ultimate way to avoid. Cause not only do I avoid it now, I don't have to think about it. Cause I'm just going to be, I'm going to be high all the time.
Brenda: 33:06
Yeah. I see the conspiracy theory thing a lot. I don't know if it's just part of the like profile of these kids, but it seems like conspiracy theories are a thing. Kind of play an important role for them. Yeah. And I don't think that the THC helps because, you know, no, we know that that just adds paranoia. Yeah. So like you said, you put the two together and it is just a disaster.
Patrick: 33:31
It's the perfect scapegoat, you know? Yeah. It's the perfect scapegoat. It's the perfect rationalization for use. It's like, why would I wanna be sober so I can. Be another cog in the wheel, you know, AI is going to take all the jobs anyway. You know, I might as well not even try. I'm going to be wasting my time, you know, but that's, that's where their heads are out, you know? And, and it's really difficult to, you know, it's, it's, it's hard to argue with a 15 year old kid about, you know, if that's the future, the weed looks pretty good from that vantage point, you know and I understand that stuff. And I, and I think that's. The best play in terms of kind of sympathizing with them and connecting with them to be able to understand where they're coming from and understand the, you know, the terror essentially they're experiencing underneath all that, not being able to follow in their parents footsteps or being able to compete academically or athletically or, you know, I feel that because it, I didn't have any access to that kind of information when I was a kid. And if I did, I probably would have been paralyzed too.
Brenda: 34:52
Right. I think paralyzed, that's a really good way to describe it because you do have that the syndrome of, I, I'm never going to be able to do What my parents did, what the guy down the street's doing, what the guy on Tik Tok is doing. So why would I even try? It's easier just to tap out now and have nobody expect anything of me. Then to try and compete in this completely fake world.
Patrick: 35:21
And I can't put a finger on it, but I know it has a lot to do with, with technology and the fact that it's our society so fast paced now, and you can get stuff at the drop of a hat, you order something on Amazon and you order DoorDash, you don't have to do anything. Everything's kind of handed to you. And they get caught up in these, these essentially pyramid schemes on that. They see from a influencer on Tik TOK or YouTube. It's like, oh, I don't need to get a job. I'm just going to do some drop shipping on Amazon. And they come up with these, like get rich quick schemes and they end up spending two of their paychecks from auto bill and they get their money taken. And, you know, it's just another, another kick in the gut because that's another thing too. I mean, there's people that are preying on these. These kids as well online that are driving the problem.
Brenda: 36:14
So from a parent's seat, if the bells are going off and they're like, yes, I have one of these beautiful humans in my home. You mentioned sort of the, you know, being able to empathize a little bit with them. Like, yeah, that that's really hard. Yeah. I didn't have any of that. And I can't imagine. Are there other ways that you've seen parents start to navigate this with kids that can steer them in, in the direction of getting some help? Because it does sound like without any intervention, this is probably not going to go in the right direction.
Patrick: 36:47
Yeah. I mean, and that's the, that's kind of the key is being able to recognize that they can pick up on your stress. You know, if you're not coming at them with clarity and compassion, like you're going to get met with resistance all day long because you just don't get it. So if you don't have the capacity to do that as a parent, really important that you find somebody that does and you either work with them directly to help coach you through it, or, you know, another nod to therapeutic support, or you have them work with your child directly. Or you find a community, you know, kind of like. And you can find resources to kind of plug them in with you know, maybe treatment isn't a, isn't an option right off the bat, you know, maybe there's some alternative peer groups in your area or a place like Emerald, like a recovery high school where they can be in community with other kids that have been there. And ones that may be a little further along in their process that can give them some hope.
Brenda: 37:55
Yeah. The, you mentioned APG, which is alternative peer group, and then recovery high schools are something that not enough people know about, and there's certainly not enough of them. Talk a little bit about what that looks like. I know you're, you're involved with one there in Is it in Charlotte?
Patrick: 38:12
Yeah, so we have one here in Charlotte. It's called Emerald School of Excellence. We've been open this is our fourth year. The founder and executive director here in Charlotte is a woman named Mary Ferreri, and she was a public high school educator and saw the need for something like this in Charlotte and just watched Greg Williams film called Generation Found which came out, I think, in 2015, and it was a documentary about recovery high schools. And they had a screening and Mary was there and a parent was like, Mary, why don't you start a recovery high school? And she kind of scoffed and then, and he got her wheels going and and she made it happen and, you know, we started in 2019 and started out with two students and Mary and a recovery support specialist. And We've grown and now we're, I think we've got about 35 kids there now, and eight full time staff. All, all core classes are taught by educators, and then we have three recovery support staff members, a couple of administrators and these kids are killing it. We graduated 17 kids last year, majority of them went on to secondary education, straight into the workforce. Amazing. Yeah. I mean, it's several of them have celebrated over three years in sobriety at this point. I saw two of them last night at a, at an AA meeting in Charlotte. They were there, you know, year two and, and stayed there, went sophomore, junior, senior year, graduated. And they're both, they've both been in abstinence based recovery for over three years. Amazing. And they have a whole community here, you know, they, they really do take pride in, in the recovery process. And those are, those are kind of like the guys that I was talking about earlier that get intervened on early enough to where they can see the damage, the, the, this path. It could have potentially led to and they can see the hope on the other side. And they even have like, you know, ESE Emerald school of excellence on their like Instagram handles and the culture of the school. And that's where, you know, in terms of family support, that's another thing. Like the families are really bought in and they. They all support each other and we have some family support groups. They all attend.
Brenda: 40:43
It's so great. I just wish there's, I wish there was a mandate in every school district that there had to be one recovery high school because I see these kids come back from treatment or even if they're in like IOP or something and then they try to go back into that same environment in their high school. It is impossible. I don't know how any kid could do it.
Patrick: 41:08
Yeah. And, and yeah, I, I don't either, especially now with, you know, how much kids are using, especially cannabis. I mean, you walk into any public school bathroom and there's a handful of kids in there smoking they're smoking in class. I mean, you know, this vaping.
Brenda: 41:23
Oh yeah. They're vaping in class cause you can't smell it.
Patrick: 41:27
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, having a place for, for a kid to land post treatment where they can be in community with some people. That are on the same path as them and have a safe place to, to finish their education. I mean, it's, it's beautiful and recovery comes first. So, you know, if you have a friend relapsing or have a recurrence in use and you come into school the next morning cause you've been up all night, you know, helping your friend and you have a science test that day. It's like, You know, why don't you hang out in the recovery support office? Let's process this. Take it easy. Don't worry about your test. We'll take it tomorrow or the next day. You know, that's amazing. That's how they roll. And, and the teachers and the recovery support staff get them, they get it.
Brenda: 42:14
Right. So if you're in, In the Charlotte area, make sure and look up Emerald School of Excellence. I'll also put in, there is a, an association for recovery high school. So I'll make sure and put that in the show notes as well. Because
Patrick: 42:26
yeah, and yeah, we're, we're accredited through the association of recovery schools. And we actually just got a pretty significant grant from the state of North Carolina. That's going to help us expand and hopefully create a sustainable model to be able to replicate across the state and then nationwide if we can, if we can get the type of support on the state level, hopefully we'll be able to replicate this all over the place. Cause it's, it's, it's incredible.
Brenda: 42:57
Oh, it's just changing those lives so much earlier on. Right. You're not waiting until they're 23, 24, 25 and you know, bottoming out for the fourth time, you're catching them so much earlier. And I know I have to let you go, but, but I wanted to just ask when you say they were intervened on early. I know there's no one set of, you know, circumstances, but what would some things be? What would be some things that are going on that would indicate to you, this would be a really good time to intervene. And it's still fairly early on. I
Patrick: 43:37
mean, I, I know that there's criteria for this type of stuff. So I mean, you can, you can find it, but the things that I see the most over social isolation, you know, obvious, obviously substance use withdrawal from, you know, any kind of family involvement. If you have a few of those in the mix it's time to get some help and it's maybe not time for treatment, you know, but it's time to start the conversation. And if you can't have the conversation with your, with your kid. Like, then you need to get some help, you know, and help guide that. Maybe you're not the person that needs to be having the conversation with them, and that's okay. You know, a lot of families are in that situation. You know, we don't have the best relationships with our kids sometimes, and sometimes we realize that, you know, when it's too late. And that's where we have to take responsibility as parents and, and say, like, you know, obviously we didn't cause it, in hindsight it's 2020, but like, you gotta ask for help if you want your kids to ask for help.
Music: 44:44
Right.
Patrick: 44:45
You can model that for them immediately by saying, I don't, I don't know how to handle this. And finding somebody that can help is the first step to You know, to getting them the help that they need,
Brenda: 44:58
right. And I know you mentioned before, it doesn't even necessarily have to be a therapist. It could be a coach. It could be a mentor. It could be somebody that they look up to and, and like you said, could help them see, look at what they need. You might be leaving behind look at what could all go away and by the time they come to us by the time they end up in hope stream, usually it, I would not call that an early intervention. We do have some for sure, but most of the time, by the time they reach us, what I'm trying to do is avoid anybody ever having to come to hope stream community. I would love to go out of business because. Everybody's intervening early with our kids. That doesn't always happen, obviously. So by the time they come to us, there is a ton of school refusal, usually some legal problems. Lots of physical, you know, problems either with withdrawal symptoms or stuff like that. So I, I'm always curious, like what's, what's the step before that where they could get some help in the local community from somebody who they really respect and can connect with and just get them on a completely different path.
Patrick: 46:11
That's why we have people like you, grandma, I
Music: 46:14
mean,
Patrick: 46:15
and there, and there are, there's a lot of groups and communities that people don't even know about.
Music: 46:20
Yeah.
Patrick: 46:20
You know, there's a lot of people that are doing this, this type of work and I had a client in here the other day and his mom told me that she's got a group of moms that she connects with in their neighborhood because they're all going through the same stuff and they have a Zoom call every week to talk about their stuff and share resources. But, you know, because of the stigma around mental health and addiction, it's so hard for families to say, Hey, my kid's struggling and I need help. But that's like the most courageous thing you could do as a parent. Bust through the shame that you might feel and get them the help that they need. Because if you don't, you know, it may, it may be too late, you know, they may go too far down the path and, you know, these days that can lead to death a lot of the times.
Brenda: 47:15
Oh, the path is extremely dangerous today for sure. And I'm, and there's some episodes that we have on fentanyl and things like that. So people can search on those. I think the assumption is I'm the only one dealing with this in my neighborhood. Maybe in some other neighborhoods they have more problems, but in my neighborhood, no one has this problem. And so I love hearing that. I bet if you threw a rock in three different directions, you're going to hit a house for sure has this problem going on. And yeah, one of our advisors, Julie, she lives in New York city. She did the same thing. She was like, gosh, you know, I kept having all of these moms kind of like quietly side up next to me after, you know, at school or whatever and say, Oh, you know, could we talk about this? And so she put together groups and same thing. It's like, Hey, let's just, let's talk about it. We're so much more effective and powerful when we're together. Sharing those resources and things like that. So I love hearing that.
Music: 48:13
Yeah.
Brenda: 48:14
Well, I think that's a great place to wrap it up. And I think this has been super helpful for people to understand some of the mysterious behavior that they might see going on and what might be going on in the brains of their young people that they can start to open up a little bit about it and ask some questions and get curious and empathetic. It's a lot. The world is a lot today.
Patrick: 48:41
Well, thanks for having me.
Brenda: 48:42
Thank you. Thank you. And we will, well, I get to see you in a few weeks out there and I hope to get to go see the, the recovery high school. Super excited about that.
Patrick: 48:53
We'll be there.
Brenda: 48:54
Yeah. And I just thank you so much.
Patrick: 48:57
Thanks for all you do.
Brenda: 48:59
Okay. My friend, that's a wrap for today. Don't forget to download the new ebook, Worried Sick. It's totally free and will shed so much light on positive tools and strategies you can use right now to start creating conditions for change in your home and in your relationships. It's at HopeStreamCommunity. org forward slash worried. And as always, you can find any resources mentioned during today's show at BrendaZane. com forward slash podcast. That is where every episode is listed, and you can search by keywords, episode number, or the guest name. Plus, we've created playlists for you, which make it easier to find episodes grouped by topic. And those are at brendazine. com forward slash playlists. Please be extraordinarily good to yourself today. Take a deep breath. You have got this. You are not doing it alone. And I will meet you right back here next week.